White Dwarf Discussion

The new edition of Warhammer encourages "our" kind of gaming anyway! Scenarios, unbalanced games, narrative, one-off special rules, occasional ridiculously-huge games, weird stuff like airships.



The joy has returned to Warhammer!

WarbossKurgan wrote:

The new edition of Warhammer encourages "our" kind of gaming anyway! Scenarios, unbalanced games, narrative, one-off special rules, occasional ridiculously-huge games, weird stuff like airships.



The joy has returned to Warhammer!

Being a Guy whose opinion I respect, that is WONDERFUL NEWS!
7th Edition quite frankly seemed mostly to be a blatant attempt at creating greater revenue; it was successful in my erstwhile gaming store...although the greater sales benefited Privateer Press rather than GW.

Aye, they've streamlined it a lot, so tourny gamers and rules-heads won't be as inclined to argue... but the rest of the book is filled with airships and beach landings and gigantic troop formations of core troops that actually have a useful role now. :3

I'm furiously working on getting my most of my painting done before the book drops.

*drools* I am patiently waiting for it to arrive here. They have hyped up the new edition so much though, im afraid im going to be let down.

With the exception of the "gigantic troop formations" it sounds good. I've had my share of big games involving thousands of minis. Now the idea of having hundreds of $s & even more hours worth of minis disappearing off the table's edge after a brief exchange of fire is of limited/non-existent appeal to moi. REALLY HUGE games is something every gamer should experience at least a few times in his/her gaming career, but it's more the realm of the gamer than the painter & more for folk with a greater disposable income than moi.

I agree with what you said, provided it were seventh edition - seventh edition I liked playing at around 1.5k myself... but there are a few changes to the new edition that make those largish games more appealing for me.

First, the standard size that seems to be implied is 3k, however, folks are reporting in after playing with the new book that they finish battles that large in about two hours. I think its because of the removal of the fiddly charge order rules and other small things, but its mostly because the units are more condensed, so you have around 5 to 8 larger units made of core, rather than 20 small, elite ones.

Second, under seventh, if I had to buy elite metal models, I'd be right on board with you. That would be horrible for an elf player like me, having to buy and paint 60+ metal white lions or swordmasters... but with the boost to core, you could make a pretty awesome unit out of the plastic sets now.

For example, High Elf Spearmen are now formidable units... they attack in 4 ranks now instead of 3, 5 if they're in a 10-wide 'horde' formation, and if they have more ranks, they effectively gain stubborn. Add to that the fact magic is less about being blasty and removing units (though it can still do that too...) and a little more versatile, you can further boost that unit with a lot of buff spells.

I'm pretty happy about all that because I can pretty much still use my seventh edition army I've collected and painted... I've got about 3.5k of High Elves already and it looks like the only thing I'm going to buy for the new edition is another box of basic elf warriors. Its just that stuff I used to just take because I liked the look of it (or I flat out had too) is now pretty darned effective...

Sorry about that! I think my youthful optimism is showing... oh well.

...you're my kind of Guy, Milliardo. While Emerson may be quite correct in saying "most men live lives of quiet desperation", I find living in hope to be a more satisfying experience...Ralph had a tendency to be such an elitist snob. Optimism & enthusiasm are strengths in my book.

I hope I didn't sound like I was trying to discourage you. The first 15 or so years of my gaming life were spent in "historical" games of rather large proportions. My last army was a collection of around 650 Wurrtemberg Napoleonic minis (30mm) not counting artillery & baggage train. A half dozen or more of the Guys had armies that would outnumber my Lads by upwards of 10 to 1. The main table in the Club gaming room was 6'X24'; it was surrounded by a dozen 5'X9's. SO...I've kind of been there, done that...the being & doing were a LOT OF FUN.

The game my friend, Nhoj Reppelk, & I are working on iuses the 500pt War Bands set ups from W.D. as our basic units...big battles (sometimes) with little units.

I'm definitely enthusiastic and optimistic. Sometimes I have a hard time not beating people over the head with it though, so if I step out of line, feel free to just remind me with a swift kick in the pants.

That sounds awesome to have that many miniatures... what kind of rule system did you guys use?

Ah, warhammer warbands is one of my favorites too. My favorite kind of Warhammer was Warhammer Warbands map-based campaigns with those Mighty Empire tiles, and then using the old 1980's Mighty Empire rules. The new ones are a little too cut and dry. It's great because you can get 5 games in an evening and its got some actual narrative behind it.

Milliardo wrote:

First, the standard size that seems to be implied is 3k, however, folks are reporting in after playing with the new book that they finish battles that large in about two hours. I think its because of the removal of the fiddly charge order rules and other small things, but its mostly because the units are more condensed, so you have around 5 to 8 larger units made of core, rather than 20 small, elite ones.

While I'm really pleased to hear that games at 3k can be completed in under 2 hours I rather hope that "standard" games stay at 2k. As an Orc player I'm not sure how I'll actually transport the extra 1000 points of troops! I already have to cart around two cases and a shoulder bag to play Warhammer! I'll need a band of Goblin porters to lug my army around, even if I don't take the new MASSSIVE rulebook with me!

From what I've heard (mostly from posters on several forums and a couple podcasts) it's not explicitly stated that the standard is 3k now, but it is heavily implied... I wouldn't worry much though. I'm sure all the non-gw tournies will stick with 2 - 2.5k.

Milliardo wrote:

I'm definitely enthusiastic and optimistic. Sometimes I have a hard time not beating people over the head with it though, so if I step out of line, feel free to just remind me with a swift kick in the pants.

...I'd never step on your enthusiasm. I think I'm the OFFICIAL FORUM CHEER LEADER...or IDIOT, one or the other.

Milliardo wrote:

That sounds awesome to have that many miniatures... what kind of rule system did you guys use?

We used Fred Vietmeyer's Column, Line, & Square Rules. The Club has since my departure become affiliated with The Long Island Historical Miniature Collectors, AND, after 47 years, is still going strong...pretty good track record.

Milliardo wrote:

Ah, warhammer warbands is one of my favorites too. My favorite kind of Warhammer was Warhammer Warbands map-based campaigns with those Mighty Empire tiles, and then using the old 1980's Mighty Empire rules. The new ones are a little too cut and dry. It's great because you can get 5 games in an evening and its got some actual narrative behind it.

The Air Ship & Landing Rules sound lke they'll fit right in with The Plan.

Lots of new fun stuff incoming.

Weirdly, my favorite part of the new book is one of the new common magic items... it's a bloody pocket watchtower. For 100 points, you can literally say 'go-go-gadget watchtower' and you have a nifty place to store your archers.

Modeling possibilities galore... I'm going to make mine into a airship-dropped landing platform, complete with cracked earth beneath it and a dust cloud. :3

WarbossKurgan wrote:

While I'm really pleased to hear that games at 3k can be completed in under 2 hours I rather hope that "standard" games stay at 2k. As an Orc player I'm not sure how I'll actually transport the extra 1000 points of troops! I already have to cart around two cases and a shoulder bag to play Warhammer! I'll need a band of Goblin porters to lug my army around, even if I don't take the new MASSSIVE rulebook with me!

I've solved the problem of hauling around 3,000 points of Night Goblins by cleverly moving to an area where the closest gaming spot is several hundred miles away...the Lads have established a permanent enclave in the closet.

So, ive just gotten my hands on the new issue! Its great, but I for once miss a little rule-examples, and numeric tebles

All in all, totally worth issue for anyone who likes fantasy!

WarbossKurgan wrote:

While I'm really pleased to hear that games at 3k can be completed in under 2 hours I rather hope that "standard" games stay at 2k. As an Orc player I'm not sure how I'll actually transport the extra 1000 points of troops! I already have to cart around two cases and a shoulder bag to play Warhammer! I'll need a band of Goblin porters to lug my army around, even if I don't take the new MASSSIVE rulebook with me!

I pretty much figured that they couldn't go to a standard 3,000+ points game, but the ominous sign of GF9 coming out with "new" movement trays with a frontage of 10 minis is setting off alarm bells:

http://theminiaturespage.com/news/336459/ . Units of 40 or more minis has a certain effect on moi... .

The fact that there are new rules-advantages for really big units means that a lot of people will assume you have to Go Large to have a chance of winning. What most people won't realise until they start playing is that units that are 10 wide and 4 or five ranks deep will be almost impossible to move on the table! They will be easy to outflank and wipe out with smaller and (on paper) less powerful, units. There are also new rules-advantages for hitting the side of a unit...

Opheliate wrote:

So, ive just gotten my hands on the new issue! Its great, but I for once miss a little rule-examples, and numeric tebles

All in all, totally worth issue for anyone who likes fantasy!

you'll find those in the astronomican: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/astronomican.jsp

WarbossKurgan wrote:

The fact that there are new rules-advantages for really big units means that a lot of people will assume you have to Go Large to have a chance of winning. What most people won't realise until they start playing is that units that are 10 wide and 4 or five ranks deep will be almost impossible to move on the table! They will be easy to outflank and wipe out with smaller and (on paper) less powerful, units. There are also new rules-advantages for hitting the side of a unit...

...talking about maneuvering large units, I had a flashback to one of my erstwhile gaming chums trying to maintain his infantry in lines while crossing a heavily wooded board. His Austrian Line Bns. were 60 minis strong arranged in two ranks AND he had twelve of the suckers...I never realized until then the exact depth & breadth of Bob's command of profanity.

Anyhow, what I meant with the GF9 thingy is that they don't do things like movement trays all on their own; things like that are contracted out by the game manufacturer; in this case G.W..

So the last issue then. I gotta say I am pretty fed up with deamons, as there have already been a lot of special features about them (remember the special edition issue some months ago with two seperate edition collectible covers?).

Notes of interest:
- The new Deamon Prince multipart kit is awesome, but I also feel it could have been even MORE awesome.
- The new pink horrors look too much like the old ones, and also look kinda quirky with the beak heads and musician...
- The article about the many lores of magic is interesting, but has been featured before, even in a different wording. Too little explaining what the spells mentioned does (i guess this is because GW doesnt want WD to give away the rules to any spells or descriptions in the new rulebook...)


An issue purely for the Deamon player, and also too many all too familiar articles.

Highlight:
The double-board battle report (Dark Elves vs Deamons) with cool magics and interesting ideas.

Thanks for the warning...I ABSOLUTELY DETEST the Daemons. I missed getting the previous issue as I didn't get to the not-so-local-mostly-comic-books store the last couple of months. C'est la vie, eh?!

Well, I dont really detest the daemons... or... well, maybe I do, but at least the sculpts are beautiful. I just fear the way that Warhammer is going. Soon, the only factions in the game will be Empire and Chaos

Opheliate wrote:

Well, I dont really detest the daemons... or... well, maybe I do, but at least the sculpts are beautiful. I just fear the way that Warhammer is going. Soon, the only factions in the game will be Empire and Chaos

They do seem to shed a lot of the more interesting races/factions/whatever; Chaos Dwarves, Hobgoblins, Dogs of War. AND, actually, I could see a day, hopefully in the FAR future, when it will be Chaos Alone...of course, I've been wrong before.

BTW, at the risk of offending the Chaos Lads, I don't even like the Daemonic minis. If I was inclined to do something along those lines I'd opt for West Wind's Lucifer's Wars.

I agree with you both, Opheliate and DeafNala: The Great Demon is good, but with a little effort it could be AWESOME, but get short to it, and the new pink horrors are AWFUL. By far the WORST miniatures released by GW in decades.

Mmmm... maybe that honor belongs to the new mounted slaanesh she-devils, moreover if you compare them with the last incarnation, the BEAUTIFUL metal models sculpted by Juan Diaz, now sadly oop.

Not to mention the scale creep that now have GW models at 32mm, making most of your "old" models look tiny.

I really don't like the path GW is taking, but then, a lot of people seems to be happy with that, so...

Best wishes.

Also, I have noticed the prices are getting higher and higher...

I really do hope coming White Dwarf issues will have a tad more diversity in it. I dont think themed issues are a good idea, as they only interest a narrow choice of readers.

Opheliate wrote:

Also, I have noticed the prices are getting higher and higher...

THE reason for me for looking at other miniature suppliers. Reapermini seems expensive at first, but when compared to GW, the prices can sometimes seem awfully low.

Compare a couple of undead mini's to mantic games' undead range (which are quality-wise equal) for example, and you will see what I mean. If the GW had more quality then the constant price-increase might have made sense....

I really laughed my ass of when I saw that GW charges 80 euro's (that's 102 dollars for you americans) for 5 (!!!!) metal blood knights on plastic steed Come on!