Golden Tom Competition 2008

15!

Well, I guess cianty is busy elsewhere, SO I'd best fill in...

HEY Y'ALL!

As an admittedly non-competition painter I probably shouldn't comment, but for you guys who enjoy being motivated by the thought of a bit of a challenge:

LOL! Thanks Deaf! Just the kind of motivation this thread needed!

One does one's humble best; humility is a virtue I'm rather proud of.

explain to me this "humility" for I am not aware of it

But yeah! thanks for the motivation! I need it... (losing track amidst projects, so it's good that you reminded me! now to select the miniature...

Ezekiel wrote:

explain to me this "humility" for I am not aware of it

It has something to do with "inheriting the Earth" or the Dirt, something like that.

I didn't see if this was posted already, but does it have to be a GW model? For example I have a Reaper mini I'd like to use as an Ogre Bodyguard.

GMillar wrote:

I didn't see if this was posted already, but does it have to be a GW model? For example I have a Reaper mini I'd like to use as an Ogre Bodyguard.

Admin Tom wrote:

***
[*]There won't be a "theme" to this competition. So you are free to create any type of single miniature you want, as long as it is set in theworld of Mordheim. A dramatis personae, a human, an elf... surprise us!
***
[*]Cianty asked about "unofficial settings" for Mordheim. This is hard to define. Border Town Burning miniatures are of course allowed. As are Shadow Warrior models and models from the Lustria, Khemri or Empire in Flames settings.

However, please try to stay clear of models from experimental warbands... I will have to trust your common sense on that. For example: entering a wood elf model would be a bit of a stretch as there are no official or unofficial rules being widely used to support wood elves in Mordheim. A Dramatis Personae you have invented yourself doesn't make a great entry either, because the judges might keep wondering what the hell it is... To cut a long story short: try to stay as close as possible by the commonly accepted features of the Mordheim universe.

If you have any doubts regarding your entry, don't hesitate to PM me!
***

I would decipher that as a yes. as long as it's obviously THE body guard character.... but i'm not running this so I could be wrong.

Hi GMillar!

As Ash said, If you can make it obvious that it is an ogre bodyguard from the Mordheim setting, yes you may submit it.

Thanks for the quick reply Ashton!

Hmm, I'm not sure exactly what that means. I'll post a photo of the model in question.



Obviously I'd put him on a square base. Would that do it? I'm not really sure what I could change about the mini, but if it's not suitable just let me know, I'm sure I can find another.

Edit: it's not obvious from the pic, but he's almost twice as tall as a man, maybe 55mm.

Edit 2: Image changed for secrecy

At the risk of offending any fanatically loyal Citadel folks, there is a World of TRULY GREAT minis out there AND only a small percentage are "official" Mordheim minis. Dismissing a mini because it does not come in a Citadel blister &, thereby, enrich GW, entails depriving one's self of the pleasure of painting some wonderful little creations, a path I choose not to tread.

I'm familiar with the mini shown above. It's smack on size-wise, AND I think it would look GREAT with a Marauder or Norse warband. For what it's worth, I think it would be a nice addition to the competition.

Thanks for weighing in in my favour, let's see what Admin Tom says.

Promise him chocolates & he'll go along with ANYTHING!

My opinion is not relevant here so I might as well share it without harming anyone: Actually I don't think the model looks very Citadel - let alone Mordheimish. It doesn't even look like what a Mordheim/Warhammer player thinks of when he hears "ogre". GW abondened their former ogre style when they released the Ogre Kingdoms and the model above doesn't look like either. Judging from a GW background it looks like a giant with an Orc head. GW likes their Ogres fat, not so well-trained. Finally, what I love about Mordheim models is that you can often tell easily that they are adventurers on tour. They are packed with bags, pouches and lots of other miscellaneous stuff - see the Mordheim Ogre model, e.g.

Finally, I do admit that it's near impossible to present an Ogre model that makes people think of a Mordheim bodyguard immediately. Well, unless you immitate the "wanderer" style with bag etc as mentioned above. In some situations the questions should be: If I read what the model is meant to represent, do I get it then?

There are many examples of models from other ranges that fit perfectly for Mordheim warbands (see Tortiou's Reiklanders e.g. [if I'm not mistaken]). The fact that we are tolerant here about using whatever mini you want is part of the forum's success. People feel welcomed here and not surpressed by any marketing guidelines. In the end, in this contest it's up to the judges to decide whether they see a model as apropriate or not. I assume choosing a model that does look more similar to the well-known Mordheim models will increase your chances of winning a lot - regardless of whether you had to fight for it being accepted or not.

peace out

I'd be surprised if AdminTom refused your entry, GMillar.

Why should a model create a Mordheim-feeling, if there is such a thing, only because it has "citadel" printed on the blister?

I think there are many models from the official range which are suiting not half as good as some other manufacturers' minis (for example compare the citadel wardogs with the reaper guard hounds).
Actually I think Mordheim lives on because players create new things. I mean, the range is abanded by citadel, so why should we care only for their models?

Erkwin wrote:

I mean, the range is abanded by citadel, so why should we care only for their models?

Not exactly. GW just restocked Specialist Games in various countries' Online Stores (GW Australia, e.g. I believe) and they ARE planning on putting out blisters. We'll see...

A difference of opinion is what makes a horse race, or, in this case, a painting competition.

This is gonna be sweet! Too bad the model I'm finishing up now is the High Elf Lord on Dragon . . . Oh well, I'll start on another post haste!

GMillar wrote:

Let's see what Admin Tom says.

Hi GMillar!

I have looked at your model, and although there is no scale indicator (apart from the 55mm you mentioned), I think it looks really cool. To me it looks more like a scary-ass fantasy ogre than the cartoonish GW version, as I have a very classical understanding of Fantasy.

This being said, I must agree with Cianty on one point.

cianty wrote:

Actually I don't think the model looks very Citadel - let alone Mordheimish.

Indeed, as mentioned before the model should obviously be an ogre mercenary, as understoond in Mordheim. I think using third party models from non-GW brands is more than OK, but when you are transposing them into a GW setting, you really should make sure the visual styles match.

What does this mean?

It is more a matter of "feel" than of rigid explaination. Ideally the non-GW model, when converted, should leave the observer a little puzzled about the origin of the mini, because he cannot put his finger on the original games workshop model used for the conversion. But at the same time it should visually and seamlessly integrate into a row of GW models standing on your desk. To achieve this effect, the base is paramount. A good and complex basejob defines a lot of the model's mood. But there are also the "design indicators" which should be respected. This means that the model should have precise features that are characteristics for a specific universe and leave no doubt on where the minis comes from: in our case, Mordheim.

e.g. for 40K this could be the famous shoulder pads for space mariness. For Mordheim it could be a cobblestone base or glowing stones or a fat belly on the ogre.

It is impossible to make a complete list of what makes a model "mordheimish". But as Cianty remarked, the "way things look" in the GW universe should not be massively altered. So even if you use your non-GW ogre, it would be a good idea to make him look like a wandering mercenary: give him pouches, a few imperial shields as armour or such. Alternatively you could explain his savage look, by giving him chains around his neck, suggesting that he might be some savage ogre-like creature from the mountains/woods that has been "tamed" or "coerced" into the services of warband in exchange for food... these are just ideas.

Erkwin wrote:

I'd be surprised if AdminTom refused your entry, GMillar.
Why should a model create a Mordheim-feeling, if there is such a thing, only because it has "citadel" printed on the blister?

I'd be surprised too. So of course I will allow your model, because I am a big non-GW model fan myself (I own the über-cool "Wind Rider I" and "Wind Rider III" by Gamezone for example and use them in my wood elf army. And anyone who has ever purchased Gamezone knows it needs a lot of patience to assemble, greenstuffing and costs more than GW...). I have also seen Erkwin's Reiklanders in real life, being made 90% out of Zvedzda miniatures, and they look absolutely stunning, because he managed to give them a 100% mordheimish feel. So I know it can be done. You CAN make a non-GW model look like it belongs to Mordheim.

However keep one thing in mind that Cianty (again) very shrewdly observed:

cianty wrote:

I assume choosing a
model that does look more similar to the well-known Mordheim models
will increase your chances of winning a lot - regardless of whether you
had to fight for it being accepted or not.
peace out

I will certainly not (and I KNOW no other member of the 4 headed jury either, because they all own and play with non-GW models) will flame any entry for being non-GW. However, it will be easier to convince us with something that looks GW-esque. Simply because it is easier to "understand".

I hope that helps GMillar!
Any questions please don't hesitate. Maybe PMing me would be better, as your ideas would stay "secret" until the end of the comp

Seperate issue, I'd like to clarify the rules concerning not being allowed to enter a mini you've already entered in another contest. That's all well and good, but would one be allowed to enter a mini that has been posted online somewhere, but not in a contest?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems entries are being kept semi-secret so that people's ideas aren't stolen? Personally, if someone used my idea, and won, I think I would be flattered that a better painted than me thought my idea was good enough to use. Basically, I'd be happy to have my idea "stolen" if it meant I could see someone else's take on it.

My two cents.

GMillar wrote:

would one be allowed to enter a mini that has been posted online somewhere, but not in a contest?

Yes. But of course we would prefer to see new works.

GMillar wrote:

Correct
me if I'm wrong, but it seems entries are being kept semi-secret so
that people's ideas aren't stolen?

You are not wrong GMillar. And if you want to publicly discuss your ideas with the others, please feel free to do so. However some people prefer that their works remain in the judge's inbox until the final day.
I was merely suggesting that you MIGHT want to PM me with questions. If you prefer to discuss them publicly, that is more than fine with all of us.

However, just in the interest of suspense and fun, I think it might be a good idea not to post your submission in a thread before the end of the competition. It would be like opening the presents before christmas.

Admin Tom wrote:

However, just in the interest of suspense and fun, I think it might be a good idea not to post your submission in a thread before the end of the competition. It would be like opening the presents before christmas.

I agree with Fearless Leader Tom [Tom makes gagging sounds ]. OH, BUT I LOVE SURPRISES!

Another thingy, we are blessed with several UBER-TALENTED mini artists. Should they post their WONDERS prior to competition, it may very well discourage us of lesser technical ability from entering. The competition IS about challenging ourselves to rise to a higher level of creativity; AND, while we all can not hope to compete on a purely technical level with the aforementioned Demi-Gods of Minidom, the minis that will win are those that capture the SPIRIT of our Beloved Mordheim not necessarily the ones that are painted to perfection.

Hey guys!

Just a quick message to let you know that the doors are now open and that you can start submitting your entries for TBMC from now on.

Don't let this stress you! You still have plenty of time until october.

lol i wondered why i got an email from the site =P
shall read the rules and perhaps show some DWARVEN spirit and join in =P