Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)

FWIW, I regularly take a crossbow pistol for my captain at least. The 10" range is useful as is the pre-melee shot. The latter seems to have a deterrent effect early game though it has saved my captains from charges on more than one occasion. It also means the captain can be near the thick of it, others can benefit from his leadership and he can grab some xp for taking OOA enemies others have knocked down etc. I think it's worth considering for those with BS4 or better.

With the exception of the warrior priest, who runs with the hounds & flagellants, I tend to use my witch hunters as second line support troops taking potshots, lending melee support where needed, hoovering up xp. I normally only have 1-2 crossbows among them and generally rely on shooty hired swords for firepower.

Okay that's sounding pretty similar to what I originally envisioned. Does your starting list usually look kinda similar to my setup? Has anyone found a decent use for Zealots yet?

Yes, very similar indeed with five warhounds and two flagellants in a starting warband. Favoured hired swords are the Halfling scout, the Elf Ranger and the Tilean marksman. I find that the latter is particularly effective in the early games of a campaign as his starting profile is far from shoddy.

I never use zealots as my meat shield expendables are the canines. If they die, I generally just add more flagellants. Some of which get two-handed weapons instead of flails.

One minor difference is that I like using sword and buckler on my witch hunters from the get go. The bucklers only get used when taking a charge as I prefer sword and dagger when doing the charging.

The Hobo Hunter wrote:

Has anyone found a decent use for Zealots yet?

Ha!

I mean, if you got a burning desire for BS2 bowmen...

All jokes aside, I really don't see their use tactically. From a fluff standpoint hell yeah angry mob, torches and accusations and shitty doomsday signs hung from their jerkins, but on the tabletop I'm not seeing the use.

Wardogs and flagellants are better at the onset of a campaign because of their great stats, and wardogs fit the 'cheap replaceable filler' slot better and cheaper. On a somewhat meta level having permanent 0-XP henchmen might even help alleviate that bloated XP rating WHs seem to start with.

By the mid-end of a campaign, while those wardogs might now have a relatively unimpressive statline, what are the alternatives? If you're phasing them out it's likely for flagellants, because while it's true that wardogs might become outclassed from lack of XP, what's a 0XP zealot going to bring to an experienced warband fighting other experienced warbands?

So recently got the Dwarf Warrior Box, got myself a nice Avatar of War Slayer model, and got plenty of Empire bitz to spare for guns and crossbows! Here's the list of dwarves and bretonnian I got planned out, and working on some Mercenary, Orcs and Witch Hunters too!

Bretonnian List
Ser Christoph and the Brothers of the Thorn

Questing Knight Ser Christoph
Warhorse
Barding
Heavy Armour
Shield
Sword
250

Knights Errant Gregor
Sword
Shield
60

Knights Errant Louis
Sword
Shield
60

Squire Thomas
Sword
Shield
25

Squire Francis
Sword
Shield
25

Squire Charles
Sword
Shield
25

Bowman Bertrand
Bow
30

Bowman Gilbert
Bow
30

Dwarf Treasure Hunter List
Gorek's Company

Noble Gorek "Grizzled-Shield"
Gromril Armour
Dwarven Axe
Shield
180

Dwarf Engineer Skorri '"Dead-eye"
Brace of Pistols
75

Troll-Slayer Ragnar "Iron-Hand"
Two Dwarf Axes
80

Clansman Thrung "Foe-Basher"
Dagger
Dwarven Axe
55

Clansman Storri "Big-Chisel"
Dagger
Dwarven Axe
55

Clansman Balin "Stone-Wall"
Dagger
Dwarven Axe
55

I think both warbands have a nice theme going. As long as you take maximum heroes, most any starting lists will work.

The Bretonnian list is hard to comment on because there are so many versions (and its hard to clarify which is which from my experience). This looks like the old TC list (which is also hosted on Mordheimer or was hosted on Mordheimer). Right?

This is not a comment on your list, but I would recommend looking at this site for the Bretonnian Chapel Guard which I think is pretty thematic.
https://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/warbands

(There is also a Slayer Pirate list on the site which would fit with your choice of models very well.)

Oh I was using the version for this PDF collection I had discovered that came with all the rules and resources for Mordheim!
I'll give these rules for the other version a look thank you very much!

But here's a more Combat Orientated Bretonnian List I just threw out!

Questing Knight
Warhorse (Half price)
Shield
Sword
Helmet
Heavy Armour
190

Damsel
Spear
45

Knights Errant
Sword
Shield
50

Knights Errant
Sword
Shield
50

Knights Errant
Sword
Dagger
45

Battle Pilgrim
Halberd
40

Battle Pilgrim
Halberd
40

Battle Pilgrim
Halberd
40

Total : 500G

I was hoping that a Bretonnian player would appear and comment, but they are a quiet bunch.

The expected comment is that the halberds are kind of expensive to be given to henchmen with only one attack. That said, if you are playing against T4 opponents, halberds are useful.

Odin Morgrimmsson wrote:

Hi Guys,

This is my first post and I'm just looking for some feedback on an Undead Warband I'm planning. I'm well aware that this is not an 'optimum' set-up, but I'm more interested in using cool models and having them match the background I'm writing for them than I  am in winning every game. Having said that, I'd like to be reasonably competetive so hopefully this list isn't too weak. I still have some cash to spend and I'm not sure what to spend it on. All feedback welcome!

Unless you're playing WYSIWYG (which I don't really recommend) then you can still have your cool models and not be too burdened when it comes to equipment.

I think ditch the 2 handed weapon on the Vampire. S6 is overkill during early campaign and the fact that you're striking last isn't ideal. You're already at S4 which is plenty to kill early T3 models. If you really want the strength boost I'd suggest a halberd.

I'd also loose the bow on Lucius. At BS2, moving, long range and in cover it'll be impossible for you to hit anything. I don't mind the great weapon on Titus. You can use him to kerb stomp KOed models. In fact given how weak Dregs are at early game you're going to have to try farm some easy kills/XPs for them.

I'd still get some zombies in there since they're cheap and are good screens/tar pits. They become a lot better if you manage to snag the Call of Vanhel on your Necromancer.

Hi All!

I'm making a new warband (witch-hunter) I kindly accept any suggestion:

Captian pair of pistols, sword, hammer 103,-
Warrior priest 2 hammer, pistol, 61,-
3 witchhunter sword, hammer crossbow 189,-
2 zealots 2 hammer, bow 72,-
5 warhounds 75,-

Witch Hunters have the best henchmen as long as you don't take zealots. Don't take zealots at all.

I start with pistols as well. However buying crossbows for your witch hunters is a waste of money until they can hit something with them. I would recommend giving one crossbow to the Captain, because he can hit something. Pistols are a good choice for everyone else (although I generally expect the Priest to be too busy praying to shoot.)

Have fun.

Then:
Captian: sword, hammer, pistol, crossbow 113,-
Warrior priest: hammer, free dagger 43,-
3 witchhunter: sword, hammer, pistol 159,-
2 flagellant: flail, (do they got free dagger?) 110,-
5 warhounds 75,-
could be better?

Also why Flagellant is better (even for a hero) then zealot when zaelot have a wilder equipment list?

The Flagellant may not take a dagger according to the equipment list. How this reconciles with the rule that EVERY warrior has a free dagger is not explained.

Quote :

Also why Flagellant is better (even for a hero) then zealot when zaelot have a wilder equipment list?

I find the flagellant unparalleled as a henchman.
-He starts at or above maximum for Strength, Toughness and Leadership, so he is going to be re-rolling advance rolls immediately, which gives him a better chance of becoming a hero.
-He starts at maximum Toughness, so he has a better chance to survive a game than other human henchmen. Once he becomes a hero, this means he is positioned to survive combats from the get go as opposed to waiting for that Toughness advance.
-Because he starts with several characteristics at maximum, as a hero he has a better chance of rolling wounds, attacks or skills because other characteristics will quickly become maximum as well.
-The Flagellant is forced to focus on melee combat. This means there is no dithering on my part about what I want the hero to do. I like that.
-Since the Flagellant will gain skills quickly, he can take the Combat skill that increases his weapon choices if you so desire. Otherwise he can just take Strongman and joyously bash things with his two handed weapon.
-The Flagellant auto passes Leadership tests. This is a horrible rule, but its great for Witch Hunters. The Flagellant will take on anything! Often by himself. He is one of the few henchmen that the monsters of the Mordheim world like Vampires and Possessed need fear right away in the first game of a campaign.

The zealot:
-Starts with below average stats, so he must gain advances before he is even as good as a beginning human warrior in a mercenary warband.
-As a hero all the zealot can do is not go out of action. He does not add to the offensive or defensive capacity of the warband until he gains MUCH experience. Since Witch Hunters are limited to 12 warriors, carrying a warrior that doesn't contribute is a big liability.
-Having a bigger choice of equipment is no advantage when the warrior is sub-par at using the equipment available. Also despite having access to more equipment, the shooting zealot is still in need of a skill before he can access the best equipment. And since he is a zealot, he is less likely to roll skills than the flagellant...

This may have been more than you wanted to know...

What VK said. Lots of fun to be had with a flagellant hero, with a few advances under his belt, who's high on mad cap mushrooms. Two's even better, but I've only managed that in one campaign.

Von Kurst wrote:

This may have been more than you wanted to know...

Nope, thanks for the answer.

It's good to hear/read others opinion to better myself.

The fact the Flagellant auto-passes all Leadership checks is more powerful than it looks. Besides the more obvious bonuses (ignoring the check against Fear-causing models), it also means the Flagellant is effectively immune to Stupidity (so you can hop him up on Madcap Mushrooms with near-impunity), and automatically succeeds when using the Wyrdstone Pendulum. Were it available to Witch Hunters, they would also have been prime candidates for running Tarot Cards too.

I've been working on tweaking a Reiklander list.

Captain: Duelling Pistol, Club: 88 GC
Champion w/ Club & Dagger: 38
Champion w/ Club & Dagger: 38
Youngblood w/ Halberd: 25
Youngblood w/ Halberd: 25

Swordsman w/ Sword & Dagger: 45 GC
Swordsman w/ Sword & Dagger: 45 GC
Marksman w/ Blunderbuss, Club & Dagger: 58 GC
Marksman w/ Blunderbuss, Club & Dagger: 58 GC

Bounty Hunter: 40 GC
Elf Ranger: 40 GC

Both Hired Swords are "Ranged Support, with secondary economic bonuses". Otherwise, the warband is very much "Move as a group, knock out/stun enemy models for Youngbloods to coup-de-grace". The Blunderbuss Marksmen are flankers/crowd control, while taking advantage of the Reiklander Captain's increased leadership range. I could see it suffering some in open combat, but doing alright with sufficient terrain. ("Everyone show up at once, alphastrike, go for the kill.")

Allowing flagellants to auto-pass tests related to side effects of items or being inmune to becoming stupid due injuries seems shady to me. It doesn't make sense both gameplaywise and fluffwise. Being able to take advantage of a powerful item without having a downside is against the very spirit of randomness Mordheim has.

I understand flagellants are inmune to Lure of Chaos spell for example, that makes sense, but why should they be inmune to drugs side effects? Other models inmune to their side effects are inmune to their positive effects also.

I wouldn't argue with another player about it, because it really is what is said in the rulebook, but I doesn't seem right to me.

@Magic Juggler--Good list. I am not one for Hired swords in beginning warbands unless I think it will help with a deficiency. While the Elf is pretty useful, I have never seen the point of a Bounty Hunter. The HS himself is rarely a threat to his 'prey', so I've never seen him actually collect a bounty in like fifteen years.

@bitxo--the nice thing about the game in its current state is the ease and general acceptance of house rules.

"Fanatical: Flagellants are convinced that the end of the world is nigh, and nothing in this world holds any terror for them."

Oh the great horrors of using tarot cards, Wyrdstone Pendulum, and drugs.

And yet they have a 10 for leadership.

Dwarf slayers aren't afraid of anything also, being able to charge a huge Demon Lord without hesitation, and aren't inmune to drugs side effects at all. Zombies have no mind and they aren't inmune at all to Lure of Chaos spell... I don't like to mix fluff with rules, because it's not only about what makes sense from fluff perspective, but making the game balanced and fun. Undead are inmune to drugs and venoms effects, positive and negative. Flagellants being inmune just to drugs negative side effects doesn't make any sense to me, they may become stupid when a promoted one rolls that injury in the hero table, but not due drugs use? It sounds like a exploit to me, and I would house rule it if my group agrees.

We should discuss it in a separate post if you guys want, to avoid filling this one with offtopic.

bixto wrote:

We should discuss it in a separate post if you guys want, to avoid filling this one with offtopic.

Topic created.

Von Kurst wrote:

@Magic Juggler--Good list.  I am not one for Hired swords in beginning warbands unless I think it will help with a deficiency.  While the Elf is pretty useful, I have never seen the point of a Bounty Hunter.  The HS himself is rarely a threat to his 'prey', so I've never seen him actually collect a bounty in like fifteen years.

The Bounty Hunter is also mostly unofficial anyway, correct? I mean, I could see him being comboed with a Witch for a one-two Scry combo, but that seems more of a lategame way to negate higher-end Warbands ("Nice bling your hero has. Shame if anything would happen to it.").

If we're keeping the warbands official, two options I see are:
-Replacing the Bounty Hunter with a Roadwarden. I sacrifice the (statistically unlikely) option to autocapture enemy heroes, but I do gain a mobile marksman with good range, that ignores movement and cover penalties. On the other hand, the extra 20 GC post-battle adds up. The question is whether this upkeep is worth being able to cripple earlygame enemy exploration.
-Giving my Champions and Swordsmen bows. I sacrifice a (Hit on 3+, wound on 3+) shot for 4 shots that on average Hit on 5+ (6+ in cover), wound on 4+. I'm paying 20 GC less after each battle, and I have a higher damage potential. On the other hand, if I'm constantly running/making objective grabs, I'm not throwing out a good output.

Yes the Bounty Hunter is 'unofficial'.

As far as the forum goes, you only have to stay official if your group plays official only.  Depending on the 'unofficial' you want to ask about, the reliability or even ability of the members to respond goes down a bit.  Its been eleven years since the last ruling on 'official', so most new players don't even know what that means.

It's been 12 years since I last played Mordheim, but some things stick to memory better than others. IIRC, there's "Official", "Unofficial" (the stuff from Town Crier that's not official), and everything else (including stuff from Fanatic, BtB, etc). Not to mention trouble warbands/swords like Hochland Bandits/Outriders, or the Witch.

I figure once the rest of the group gets going and our campaign starts rolling, we may start playing around with more unofficial warbands/swords (like Pirates, Duellists, etc).

I avoided taking an Arabian Merchant in my starting warband despite his supposed official status.