Sartosa

I don't understand, here's how I see it:

Code:

                Sword and D-Pistol                Sword Pistol
Turn 1    1 shot, 1 parry, 1 attack                1 shot
 
Turn 2+  1 club, 1 attack, 1 parry          1 attack, 1 parry
 
 
 
 
 

You have to remember that it allows the user to wield a second weapon. For example:

Code:

Sword and D-Pistol                              Sword Pistol + Dueling Pistol
Turn 1    1 shot, 1 parry, 1 attack                2 shot
 
Turn 2+  1 club, 1 attack, 1 parry          1 club, 1 attack, 1 parry

If it doesn't seem that great, maybe lower it to 40gc? and/or remove the 'can't parry the turn it fires' rule?

Late Night: That's when they come... right before you have to get in bed, with only 7 hours left before work. *le sigh*

Good idea, lower the price. And let it parry every turn (is parrying doesn't stop you using a sword, then why should it stop you using a pistol?).

Chad wrote:

Good idea, lower the price. And let it parry every turn (is parrying doesn't stop you using a sword, then why should it stop you using a pistol?).

Because it's attached to a sword?

But with a normal sword you can parry and hit.

Gameplay or playability--I agree with you Chad.

Simulation of combat wise I'm not so sure. The sword is designed to attack and defend. But if you are intending to shoot someone with it its a different motion or rhythm. Plus the recoil of the pistol will affect the sword arm's ability to react with a parry.

Hmm. For the sake of Playability, I'll go with Chad: It's a Dueling Pistol that can parry (and, when not shooting, roles for crits like a bladed weapon.)

I forgot to add the 'Destroyed" Rule.

DESTROYED: If the Dueling Pistol misfires, and rolls the result 'Jammed', the pistol portion of the weapon cannot be used this game, and it is treated as a normal sword for the remainder of the game. Likewise, if you roll the result 'BOOM', and the weapon explodes, the Sword Pistol is no longer able to fire, and is treated as a normal sword from now on.

Of course, Master's the one who came up with the Sword-Pistol idea in the first place, so of course, he has the last say.

Von Kurst: BTW, if you're interested in a feral Greenskin approach for the next campaign, Master and I will be pounding out a Savage Orc warband as soon as we can on the SG site.

I visited the War Museum in Paris - they actually had Pistol Swords there - they're just so queer (in that wonderful queerish way).
I really like the idea of integrating them in the Mordheim world... Feels very Mordheimish.
Oh and I'd say that for the result 'BOOM' the whole weapon is destroyed... seems like a "boom" can deform the sword part quite bad.
- popmouth

StyrofoamKing wrote:

Von Kurst: BTW, if you're interested in a feral Greenskin approach for the next campaign, Master and I will be pounding out a Savage Orc warband as soon as we can on the SG site.

Flame On used a really simle set of mods for the regular OnG list for Savages - I'll dig them out but basically it was a price rise for Boyz along with the addition of Frenzy and Warpaint and a restriction on useable weapons and equipment.



Edit:

Here you go -

Orcs may be upgraded to Savage Orcs for +15 gold per Orc:
• Frenzy – double attacks; immune to psych; have to charge; lasts until knocked down
• Magic warpaint – 6+ ward save against any wounding hit, ignores save modifiers
• They may not wear armour or use shields, crossbows or any Black Powder weapons, and may not use a sword or buckler to parry.

Popmouth wrote:

Oh and I'd say that for the result 'BOOM' the whole weapon is destroyed... seems like a "boom" can deform the sword part quite bad.
- popmouth

I disagree, for two reasons: 1) the blast, once it destroys the barrel-walls, isn't contained; rendering a sonic-blast impotent 2) gun powder produces very little in the way of heat, and certainly not enough to damage to steel of the blade. I fully understand why you might think that way though, uncontained explosions do look a lot more dangerous and powerful than they actually are.

WarbossKurgan wrote:

StyrofoamKing wrote:

Von Kurst: BTW, if you're interested in a feral Greenskin approach for the next campaign, Master and I will be pounding out a Savage Orc warband as soon as we can on the SG site.

Here you go -
Orcs may be upgraded to Savage Orcs for +15 gold per Orc:
• Frenzy – double attacks; immune to psych; have to charge; lasts until knocked down
• Magic warpaint – 6+ ward save against any wounding hit, ignores save modifiers
• They may not wear armour or use shields, crossbows or any Black Powder weapons, and may not use a sword or buckler to parry.

Thanks gents! I was considering the Forest Gobbos because they are the only semi-official goblin warband. (I could get those cool Black Scorpion golbins!)

WBK--are the above for all Orcs including heroes or just boyz?

Boyz and Heroes. It was all-or-nothing: I think we said you couldn't mix Savage Orcs into a Warband with regular ones.

Zelophahad's Savage Orc Shaman with Clubba was quite terrifying!

Well, I'm trying to come up with a full list elsewhere, a quite switch to me includes switching xbows to long bows, and switching the big 'un's shooting skills to speed. Also, take away the night goblin equipment from the gobbos with blowpipes.

All good ideas Styro! I suspect there was quite a lot of self-editing going on in what Zelophahad selected for his "fluffy" Savages.

Also, I could imagine that you could pick certain henchmen groups to not undergo the '+15gc' savage upgrade. They'd still be restricted in their item choices, but they don't have the tattoos or frenzy. They'd basically be superstitious orcs in loin clothes. (this is a valid choice for, say, orc arrer boyz.)

To plug the campaign Master's been spearheading, we've been brainstorming for an athel loren-based campaign. I liked the idea of tattoos and savage fighters in warpaint, so some of the flagship warbands (that I think I've convinced Master to pick up on... it's his baby, really) are Wood Elves (wardancers included), Savage Orcs, and Slayers. Definitely a step away from the toughened leathers and pistols of Sartosa.

Chad wrote:

I disagree, for two reasons: 1) the blast, once it destroys the barrel-walls, isn't contained; rendering a sonic-blast impotent 2) gun powder produces very little in the way of heat, and certainly not enough to damage to steel of the blade. I fully understand why you might think that way though, uncontained explosions do look a lot more dangerous and powerful than they actually are.

Fair enough - my merits of misfired guns are (thankfully) rather thin.
- popmouth

Mine too, but a fair amount of my pre-teen years were spent blowing things up.

Chad, your sig is not cool.

playtable is right. PMed Chad about it.
--Admin Tom

Admin asked me to change it, which I have. I'm sorry and I didn't realise it could be construed as offensive.

Thanks Chad!
-- Admin Tom

Back to Wrecking.

I played the scenario with our newest Mordheim player last evening. Naturally since our last discussion of this scenario I had not printed your answers.

Oy. Once again I have to ask what the problem with placing the treasure during set up might be? Concept wise? Rules wise? If it is to be placed in the center of the boat anyway?

Also the description of game types lists "single player games" and "multi-player games". Not a huge deal but it was a couple minute conversation about two players 'counting as' a single player game and more than 2 people 'counting as' a multi-player game.

Are all possible items to be found in one chest? In a 5 player game are there 4 items in one cargo crate? or 4 cargo crates?

Back to the original question about the timing of the placement of the treasure (on page 6)

Styrofoamking's answer--

"If all of the defenders on the ship are taken out of action, and there are no more players on the board, the treasure goes to the last remaining player, assuming he has at least one model upon the boat.
If the Defenders are defeated and there is more than one player remaining on the board, the player who took the last Defender out of action may place the Chest upon the board. Place it on the top of the deck, as close as possible to the middle of the ship without touching any model.

" (this means it is not a rout scenario any further. It lasts until the Defenders are defeated, or until all warbands rout. If the Defenders are defeated, the game lasts until the chest is taken off the board, or until all players rout. A player that voluntarily routs drops the chest. A player that involuntarily routs will drop the chest if there is mobilized enemy within charge range of the chest when the player routs. If dropped, it may be picked up by last remaining player if they have a model within charge range of it, otherwise it is discarded.)"

Why would the scenario change to "not a rout scenario any further."? I don't understand what this has to do with placing the treasure or the timing of placing the treasure? The rules for winning were not unclear in the original version. My question was attempting to clarify the physical representation of the treasure not suggesting new victory conditions.

Finally this is a very complicated scenario, making the victory conditions more complicated is not necessarily a good thing. If the treasure chest is set up at the beginning or whenever, then a simple sentence that links the rules for victory to the Hidden Treasure scenario is sufficient.

Still with the Wrecking.

Under Defenders: Marienburgers and the Janissaries are armed with a Rifle. The only weapon referred to as a 'rifle' in the game is a Hochland Long Rifle. Please say in writing that it isn't so. I'm assuming that you never got the "this is my rifle, this is my gun" speech.

On to the Old Smuggler. (Leviathan Hunter, possibly others) The Hired Sword has Special Skills listed. The rules provided for published Hired Swords often include a sentence saying something to the effect that the Hired Sword may chose from the skills listed above or he/she may chose the following special skills. Your descriptions do not contain this sentence, therefore it has come to my attention that my players are treating the Special Skills section as skills the Hired Sword comes with at purchase. "2 warriors for 20 gc hiring fee!" Please address this as well.

Big note. I do understand that these rules are a work in progress, and I fully appreciate the effort that has gone into getting them to this stage. I just want them to continue to progress.
js

Wrecking: Sorry to give you grief over it. Hope we can sor this out...

The Treasure Chest: there's a reason I call it the 'chest' every time and not a 'crate' or 'cargo', as it does contain all of the items. Quote: "It can be moved the same rate as a Cargo", meaning the normal 'half-speed' rule applies. Again, it is placed as close to the center of the boat as possible without touching a model. So if a model is standing dead center, place it 1" from center (in a random direction, if need be.)

Changing Victory: I guess it STILL counts as a rout scenario, but you can also win by getting the chest off of the board. Poorly worded on my part. Does that seem too confusing? I didn't want the winner to be pure 'rout' based, otherwise the winner would be the guy who hangs back in the corner and never comes near the boat. I'll try to look at the Hidden Treasure scenario to clarify.

Single-Player: Ug. Again, sorry to confuse. I'll try to meet you half way and rewrite 'single player' to 'two-player'. Don't expect me to make 'multiple player' into "more than two", though.

Rifle: My bad. Supposed to be handgun.

Hired Swords: Ah. For this one, I feel I'm on firmer ground. Just like the rulebook, any default abilities are called 'Special Rules'. Any skills they can learn are labeled 'special skills.' To paraphrase Getrude Stein, "a skill is a skill is a skill is a skill is a skill." But if you think I need to clarify, I'll try to include it next update.

Thanks again for catching me on these, Von. Did I miss any concerns?

Sir Styro,
A note on the Old Smuggler:
As you state, he has Special Rules, good...I love the Peek (but rolled the same as my first roll the first 2 times I rerolled after peeking)

He also has Special Skills.
I thought Black Market was his only one.
As I look at it again, it seems the Guardian is a Special Skill too. Right?

Also when you list what skills he may learn you only put down Combat, Academic and Pirate Skills and you failed to state that his "Old Smuggler only Special Skills" as ones he can learn. I know it should be understood without you making a point of it but with the easily blurry line (now clear from your last post) between Special Rules and Special Skills it is easy to miss.
Checking the main rulebook's hired sword section, I found that the Elf Ranger and the Dwarf Troll Slayer both clearly state they have their own Special Skills they can learn.

On another note, do you still think that when the Old Smuggler gets the Special Skill of the Guardian that the 10gc retainer fee is not too low? Two hires swords for a 10gc retainer fee seems very low to me.
I've never been brave enough to write my own rules but if I might suggest, I would add 5gc to the retainer fee if the Old Smuggler chooses that skill.

Treasure Chest--Hidden Treasure in the main rule book has rules for treasure chests. It also has simple rules for including the treasure chest in the game and determining victory.

Since there is only one chest, including the rules from Down on the Docks where a warband may rout but keep a cargo if an enemy is not in a certain distance, is not as useful. The fight is about the treasure. Allowing a warband that is forced to rout to keep the treasure defeats the purpose of the game.

My main concern is the timing of the placement of the chest. Why can't it be set up during the set up of the game. Why wait until the last Defender falls?

Single player/multi-player--standard scenario language is two-player for regular games or multi-player for games with more than 2 players, so I won't be coming after you...

Hired Sword skills--yes you need to clarify. Look at the main rule book's rules layout for Hired Swords. If the Hired Sword has special skills available to it the rules tell you so in the paragraph that tells you what skills the Hired Sword my choose.

Any warband that has access to Special Skills has a "Special" column added to their skill table.

Thanks!

Swabbies. I remain mystified by these hapless souls. They do not count for the number of casualties a warband must suffer before it must take a break test. Do they then count for the overall numbers of the warband? I have 6 heroes, 5 crew and 3 swabs=14 warriors. Or is Swabbie Math=11 warriors (the swabs don't count?) What is my break point? 3 or 4.

Press Gang. We rolled it again last night. We played by the web page's rules because everyone has those with them. And got kind of fiddlly. If I take a drunk OOA do I get the +1 experience for taking an enemy OOA? And then if he lives do I get +1 for a living recruit?

On a slightly different note, does your group use the additional skills from Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe? Tactician, Hunch etc? Mine has kind of forgotten them, even though there are many amputee rabbits about. I would just as soon this state of affairs continue because Friendly Flag stacked with Tactician and Sprint=auto win for objective scenarios.