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 A Beastman thing

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whiskeytango
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PostSubject: A Beastman thing   Mon 18 Jan 2016 - 18:24

A guy who wants to play some Mordheim wants to play as the Beastman, but is wondering why Ungors can't use bows. I couldn't think of a good reason other than "thats how they're written". Anyone think giving Ungors bows (or short bows) is going to break the warband?
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: A Beastman thing   Mon 18 Jan 2016 - 19:02

"Is TRADITION! Ungor not to be having relations with bows!  Never!"

This started back in 4th edition Warhammer when Chaos armies lost their ability to use missile weapons.  Essentially it was a way to differentiate armies and balance between them which carried over to Mordheim.   The Beasts are tough strong and fast to counter a lack of missile support.

When 8th edition threw all that out by giving Beastmen Ungor archers, there was some talk about equipping Mordheim Ungor with short bows to keep in step with Warhammer.   We allowed it for one campaign, no one complained.  No one insisted we always allow them either.  One player didn't want bows, he wanted javelins or throwing axes...  We allowed short bows...

Other threads like this--
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t8269-centigors-with-bucklers-and-ungors-with-shortbows
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Phantasmal_fiend
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PostSubject: Re: A Beastman thing   Mon 18 Jan 2016 - 22:23

Not having any ranged attacks is what makes such a flavorful warband IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: A Beastman thing   Wed 20 Jan 2016 - 21:28

This is the answer I gave in the last post about that..

"Short bows for ungor, this is not game breaking. Personaly I would be happy if a beastmen player used them, as i see it as a downgrade, 2-3 BS3(4) S3 shots is not something Im afraid of.
The ungors is ok as meatshields and can do more damage with 2 daggers then a shortbow."

To sum-up, as a Beastmen player, I would NOT use them, and against Beastmen, I see it as a disadvantage.

If you have a Beastmen player that want to use them, I say let them... Its not gamebreaking or powerfull.

-Skavenslayer
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whiskeytango
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PostSubject: Re: A Beastman thing   Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 13:32

Thanks guys. We're going to allow them, since the models come with them. Thats usually been the rule I've used (that if there are models that come with it, that it can be used by that type, for example: Orcs with clubs)

Another question about Ungors that I had never really considered (since so rarely does anyone play as beastmen) but my buddy brought up:

Are they over costed at 25gc each?

In the "no" column: movement 5 is powerful, and is definitely worth some extra money. They have 1 more leadership than the 5gc cheaper Verminkin, which follows pretty closely with the accurate-ish guide of +5gc per extra stat.

In the "yes" column: they are leadership 6, as opposed to a merc warriors 7, initiative 3 as opposed to the Verminkin, can't become heroes. and have a very, very limited equipment list that they can never expand.

The argument in favor of lowering the cost certainly seems stronger to me. It really feels like they're more a 20gc choice, at most.
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PostSubject: Re: A Beastman thing   Fri 29 Jan 2016 - 16:47

The Beastmen Raiders warband is a top tier warband and always goes well in our campaigns. You are looking to improve it by giving some ranged attack capacities to Ungors and now you are wondering about improving the warband further by making Jngors cheaper. I wouldn't do it but if you choose to do it then please report back after your campaign so we can learn how it goes.

(I was going to say that we haven't done anything to help Beastmen Raiders warbands but realised that we do use the MiM Corrupted Characters article which helps the warband.)
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PostSubject: Re: A Beastman thing   Sat 30 Jan 2016 - 9:09

I see more Ungors as a weakening of the Beasts, so I am all for anything that dupes encourages folks to take Ungors.
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PostSubject: Re: A Beastman thing   Today at 9:24

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