I have few questions concerning the Averlander Bergjaeger Traps and would like to hear your take on this.
The fluff is this:
Town Cryer 10: wrote:
"The Bergjaeger are trappers and rangers from the mountains that surround the Black Fire pass. They are experts at moving silently through terrain and are used as scouts. In addition they make good use of animal traps to delay or divide a group of enemies. Bergjager are not professional soldiers and rely more on stealth and cunning than a strong sword-arm to survive."
Bergjaeger Special Rule wrote:
"Set Traps: Bergjaeger are expert trappers and hunters and these skills can be put to great use in the ruins of Mordheim. A Bergjaeger may set a trap if he spends a turn doing nothing else (he may not set traps if he’s just recovered from being Knocked Down). Place a marker in base contact with the Bergjager. When a model, friend or foe, moves within 2" of the marker he risks setting off the trap – roll a D6. On a score of 3+ he has triggered the trap and suffers a S4 hit (note that the Bergjager won’t trigger his own traps). If the trap did not wound the model or it didn’t trigger, the ‘victim’ may finish his move otherwise he is placed knocked Down or Stunned 2" from the marker. Regardless whether the trap was triggered or not, the marker is removed."
So my questions are: 1. about when the trap is placed. Is it after his "turn doing nothing else" or at the end of his "turn doing nothing else"?
2. What size should the trap marker be? (is it rather a marking at the or is it base size or larger?) 3. How to understand "When a model, friend or foe, moves within 2"of the marker"? Is it moving into the 2" range of the trap? Or is it moving inside the 2" range of the trap? Or both? What about if there are several models within the range of a trap fighting?
4. If the trap is triggered and the triggering model is wounded "he is placed knocked Down or Stunned 2" from the marker." What about models with several wounds?
Last edited by Egon vom Berg on Wed 8 Jul 2020 - 12:34; edited 1 time in total
Tagnator Etheral
Posts : 1356 Trading Reputation : 6 Join date : 2007-11-03 Age : 31 Location : Uitgeest, The Netherlands
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Good questions Egon vom Berg! As I'm planning to use the Averlander rules as well this is quite interesting
1. I think personally that it's like he places the trap at the start of his turn and then may do nothing else during that turn. Atleast for me that seems the most logical way.
2. I think it would be a small square / round base, as a trap shouldn't be to big to hide it.
3. I think it's like 2 inch from the base of the trap, that should be the zone, if more are fighting, everybody has a chance to activate it. Maybe some initiative roll to see who goes first?
4. I guess the trap just hurts him once and you should do the S4 hit like other attacks, if he dies, he dies and otherwise he is knocked / stunned.
Hope this helps, my knowledge of Mordheim rules isn't to good
IMHO, if a model is sent Out of Action by a trap marker, he cannot be placed 2" from the marker, he is removed from the table.
only that the Averlander Bergjaeger traps don´t send out of action...
Unlikely. The trap, if triggers, strike with Str4. If it wounds and the model lose his last wound, you roll on the injury chart. If you roll Knocked Down or Stunned, you place the model 2" from the marker, if you roll Out of Action, you remove the model. Saying that a trap will not send you OoA is a misreading due to the badly written rule edit: Otherwise, the rule will state "When rolling on the injury chart, treat 'Out of Action' as 'Stunned' ", like the ritual of chaos 'Dark Blood'.
Oof, that's a rule written by someone who knows what they mean & don't realise how much extra explanation is needed. (Or else edited down for space, losing some clarity)
1. I would say the best time to place the marker would be in the Shooting phase. It acts like a move or shoot weapon, & can't be deployed if the Bergjaeger is charged during the movement phase (& is therefore doing something else, which is to say fighting). But Tagnator's option is also good, if your gaming group agrees to use it; the trap can then sometimes be used as an anti-charge defence.
2/3. My interpretation would be that the trap area has a 4" diameter, so 2" out from a central point. But again, Tagnator's fix here is good, & if your group agrees to consistently use a single size of marker (maybe a 25mm round base, since they're nice & common) & measure out from the edge of that, it'll be good. & you can always change what system you're using if it's playing badly (eg if no-one ever gets caught in a 4" circle, then maybe outwards from a 25mm marker is better).
Alternatively, you could try various sizes of marker (maybe with a maximum 32mm), based on what the player wants to place & the space available -- so if the Bergjaeger was planting a trap on a narrow path they'd drop a little marker (representing a hidden snare or the like), but if they were in open ground they could throw down a much larger marker, representing a spread of caltrops, for example. Because the trap affects friends & foe alike, this could be an interesting extra tactical decision, not becoming too unbalanced, & of course would still only work once even with the largest size.
4. I'd say Leavhon's very right, the traps can put people out of action. The note about being placed knocked down or stunned is explaining that surviving warriors are placed at the edge of the trap area, where they'd first encounter it. I'd also say Tagnator's approach here is best, that you play out the wound as normal, & a warrior with multiple wounds can be hurt but keep going. You could agree a rule that any warrior wounded by the trap is knocked down regardless of wounds, to represent the tangling effect of a trap, but that doesn't seem intended by the writer.
Otherwise, I'd be curious to hear how this plays in your games, & what solutions you agree on! I've written a similar rule into a (very experimental) Wood Elf list, & I think I tried to answer some of these questions in my version, but I'd like to know what actually works in game!
The thing is that the different interpretations lead to different reactions towards the reactions.
At the moment our group is taking the rule descritption literally. Which means it doesn´t kill a modell but can get it stunned or knocked down. This results in multi wounds models avoiding the trap totally since it is quite likely that it knocks them down or stuns them and in the Averlanders turn these heavy guys are easy kills.
If the traps would wound it would be the other way around. Multi wound models wouldn´t worry too much about the traps and could/would walk or attack through the traps and models with only one wound would avoid it much more.
At the moment I like all of the interpretations posted here. They all result in different trap tactics.
Subject: Averlander Bergjaeger Questions 
Mon 6 Jul 2020 - 23:42
