When to test for Fear, and how many times.

Hi all,

I've been reading through the rulebook and FAQ to find an answer to my questions, and while I only have one of them left unanswered I figured I'd list all scenarios for testing against fear here in this thread. Please tell me if I've understood anything wrong. My actual question is below in white.

1) When trying to charge a Fear-causing opponent.
Test: Yes.

1a) When trying to charge a Fear-causing opponent that is knocked down or stunned.
Test: Yes.

2) When being charged by a Fear-causing opponent.
Test: Yes.

2a) When being charged by multiple Fear-causing opponents.
Test: Yes, with one test per charging opponent.

2b) When being charged by one or more Fear-causing opponents while already fighting in close combat.
Test: Yes?

I'm used to Warhammer rules (6th/7th ed) where you were immune to psychology as soon as you entered close combat but I can't find the same in the rules for Mordheim. So, will Fear cover that scenario as well?

I've not seen any errata that specifically covers this but we have always played it as you suggest: once engaged in hand to hand combat you need not test for fear. Its to keep it running, consider it the rush of adrenaline of clashing blades.

Do remember that failed fear test on being charged means needing 6's to hit, for any model you are in combat with, not just the fear causing individuals.

MasterSpark wrote:

1a) When trying to charge a Fear-causing opponent that is knocked down or stunned.
Test: Yes.

My group has always played this as no fear test required.  Is this official somewhere?  Can you point it out to me?

Thanks,

TIM

Mike wrote:

I've not seen any errata that specifically covers this but we have always played it as you suggest: once engaged in hand to hand combat you need not test for fear. Its to keep it running, consider it the rush of adrenaline of clashing blades.

Hey Mike,

We've actually lately been playing it that models that are locked in close combat has to take fear tests if they're charged by more fear causers. I really can't find anything in the rules to say anything against it. Stupidity is also still active for models fighting in combat, unlike in Warhammer, so there's no case of general immunity to psychology. It sure makes Fear a handy weapon at times.

teninchman wrote:

My group has always played this as no fear test required.  Is this official somewhere?  Can you point it out to me?

Hi TIM,

It's rather more a case of there being nothing to contradict it. The rules say that you take a Fear test when you try to charge something that causes fear. When you declare charges against knocked down and stunned models it is treated as a normal charge and it doesn't give any exceptions at all.

I agree, that the answer you be 'yes' to everything. Especially the one with 'charged by fear-causing enemy while already in close combat; imagine already fighting against 4 Zombies and suddenly being charged by the Vampire as well. Don't think that would be easy to ignore, even in the heat of battle.

The one with charging knocked down/stunned opponents is something that is house ruled by some, but the official ruling is, that you will have to fear test here as well.

Thanks for the input, Aipha. That's the way I imagine it as well, which makes Fear tests really quite numerous. I don't think it's unreasonable, though, as without it most Undead models are pretty poor.

This is my understanding...

2a) If a warrior is charged by multiple warriors of the same type (e.g. zombies) then only test for the first. If the warrior is charged by multiple types (e.g. zombie and vampire) then test for each type. I'll try to find where this was defined. (Not sure if answer mod or just house rule.)

2b) I agree about the vampire example. It is my understanding that once you pass a fear test and close combat against one type of warrior then it is not necessary to test again for that warrior type during that close combat. Therefore if a warrior is fighting zombies and another zombie charges then there would be no additional fear test but one is necessary if the vampire charges.

Edited to remove my incorrect understanding.

Hi RationalLemming,

I don't think I've ever seen a reference to different types of fear-causing warriors making a difference but if you can find it please share it with us.

No, I had a look and appear to be mistaken. It is necessary to continually test for fear until there are no more fear tests to occur or a fear test is failed.

Mordheim rule book wrote:

Fear
Fear is a natural reaction to huge or unnerving
creatures. A model must take a Fear test (ie, test
against his Leadership) in the following situations.
Note that creatures that cause fear can ignore these
tests.

a) If the model is charged by a warrior or a
creature which causes fear.

If a warrior is charged by an enemy that he fears
then he must take a test to overcome that fear.
Test when the charge is declared and is
determined to be within range. If the test is
passed the model may fight as normal. If it is
failed, the model must roll 6s to score hits in
that round of combat.

b) If the model wishes to charge a fear-
causing enemy.

If a warrior wishes to charge an enemy that it
fears then it must take a test to overcome this. If
it fails the model may not charge and must
remain stationary for the turn. Treat this as a
failed charge.

I play Rules As Written,

The rule's indicate that you only test during these two situations so 2nd round of combat you fight normally.

It also indicates that that you must test each time you are charged by a fear causing creature, so being charged by 4 zombies and a vampire equals 5 fear tests.

the only thing that there is dispute over in my group is lets say i'm charged by the 4 zombies and a vampire and i pass 2 of the zombies fear tests can i strike the 2 zombies normally or do i need 6's for everything as the rules indicate everything.

The FAQs state that once you fail a fear test you need to roll 6s to hit everyone in combat that turn including when attacking the measly dreg that doesn't cause fear who happened to charge with the fear causing warriors.

RationalLemming wrote:

The FAQs state that once you fail a fear test you need to roll 6s to hit everyone in combat that turn including when attacking the measly dreg that doesn't cause fear who happened to charge with the fear causing warriors.

Agreed. We played it the other way once, and it just didn't make sense:

"Okay, I just failed all my fear tests against your Ghouls, but that Dreg doesn't look so nasty; let me take a few easy-hit punches at him instead then!"

One clever tactic is to charge with a bunch of stuff that causes Fear, but hold one back. Then, if the fight is still ongoing, charge in again to keep the opponent on his back foot and needing to make more Fear tests (and possibly only hitting on 6s).

The Nick wrote:

One clever tactic is to charge with a bunch of stuff that causes Fear, but hold one back. Then, if the fight is still ongoing, charge in again to keep the opponent on his back foot and needing to make more Fear tests (and possibly only hitting on 6s).

That's a nasty tactic, that I will now be using.

MasterSpark wrote:

We've actually lately been playing it that models that are locked in close combat has to take fear tests if they're charged by more fear causers. I really can't find anything in the rules to say anything against it. Stupidity is also still active for models fighting in combat, unlike in Warhammer, so there's no case of general immunity to psychology. It sure makes Fear a handy weapon at times.

I know it's rather late to respond, but is the above correct regarding Stupidity?  This blurb suggests to me it is not:

Mordheim rulebook, page 23 wrote:

If a model who fails a Stupidity test is not in hand-to- hand combat, roll a D6.

It would seem that if a model is in hand– to– hand combat and fails Stupidity, they are not affected by Stupidity.  Am I misunderstanding the rule?  I have a sneaking suspicion something is not right somewhere...

TenebraeLux wrote:

I know it's rather late to respond, but is the above correct regarding Stupidity?  This blurb suggests to me it is not:

Mordheim rulebook, page 23 wrote:

If a model who fails a Stupidity test is not in hand-to- hand combat, roll a D6.

It would seem that if a model is in hand– to– hand combat and fails Stupidity, they are not affected by Stupidity.  Am I misunderstanding the rule?  I have a sneaking suspicion something is not right somewhere...

The paragraph right above that suggests that stupidity also effects things in close combat, even if it doesn't say it outright that this is what happens to a stupid model locked in combat.

Mordheim rulebook, also page 23 wrote:

If the test is failed all is not well. Until the start of his
next turn (when it takes a new Stupidity test) the
model will not cast spells or fight in hand-to-hand
combat (though his opponent will still have to roll to
hit him as normal).

We haven't played with stupid warriors too much in our group. I think I've read the Stupidity rules wrong all these years and originally had thought the rules were as per TenebraeLux's thought. However, I now agree with MasterSpark. The Stupidity test for the warrior occurs EVERY time it is the warrior's turn regardless of whether they are in hand-to-hand combat or not.

If the warrior are not in hand-to-hand combat then roll a D6 and the warrior willl either stand still or trundle forward. If the stupid warrior is charged then it will not attack.

If the warrior is in hand-to-hand combat then do not role a D6 to decide what happens. The warrior will therefore remain in close combat but will not attack.

It certainly makes stupidity much more of a liability. Later editions of WFB changed it so that models locked in combat don't have to test for it, but no such thing when Mordheim was released.

MasterSpark wrote:

It certainly makes stupidity much more of a liability. Later editions of WFB changed it so that models locked in combat don't have to test for it, but no such thing when Mordheim was released.

That seems to be the case. I run CoC, so I haven't had to deal with it, although I think I'm going to talk to my group about house ruling it to reflect the Stupidity special rule found in the *8th Ed. WHFB. I know Ogres & Trolls are stupid, but I can't image them picking their nose in a fight. I imagine their rage, bloodthirst, and hunger overwhelming their Stupidity.