Skaven List Revising: Clans Mors and Eshin Lists pg2 9/29

StyrofoamKing wrote:

Initiates - you can give them S3 T3. I really don't see any need not to.

Immune to Poison sounds fair, as the two are often linked together. This is doubly important with the Plague Swords, as no models have "immune to disease" in their actual rules, only in their flavor test. Have it say "immune to poison" for that one at least.

Infected Rats: Would only make sense to have them explode if they died, I think. Maybe roll to see if they die? Also, 4" is a WIDE spread... maybe 2", or 1D3"?

Special Unit: as a possible thought, a Ratspawn (a rat-like chaos spawn) or a Censer-bearer elite unit would be a flavorful alternative to the Ogre. Just a thought.

Initiates: really? I guess i thought it'd be a good idea to give them youngblood stats to have a weak hero, though I guess I do already have two weak henchmen options too.

poison/disease: huh, i never noticed that, but you're right. Poison/Disease immunity for all.

rats: i guess a good thing to remember when writing rules is the 3 C's: Clarification, Clarification, Clarification. When the rats are taken out of action and explode, they automatically are killed and removed from the warband roster. 1d3 range is probably better than 4" too.

special unit: hmm... i feel like a rat spawn would fit better with moulder, and the special pestilens skills can effectively turn a hero into a more traditional censer-bearer, though I would definitely be open to an alternative to the ogre.

pervavita wrote:

Infected giant rats; not sure about there death pop being S3, maybe S2 as it negates armor and is an AoE bonus.
4" is a bit much as said above.

S2 would definitely be fine.

Any pricing ideas?

updated Pestilens list with some of the feedback taken into account, going to be play tested tonight:

Clan Pestilens: 3 member minimum, 15 member max, plus up to 3 additional infected giant rats or slaves

Equipment:
Heros:

Close Combat:
Dagger - 1st free, 2nd 2wt
Club - 3wt
Sword - 10wt
Spear - 10wt
Halberd - 10wt
Plagued Dagger - 8wt*
Plagued Sword - 15wt*
Censer - 30wt*

Ranged:
Sling - 2wt
Warplock Pistol/Brace - 35wt/70wt

Armor:
Helmet - 10wt
Shield - 5wt
Light Armor - 20wt

* - special cost available at creation.

Henchmen:

Close Combat:
Dagger - 1st free, 2nd 2wt
Club - 3wt
Sword - 10wt
Spear - 10wt

Ranged:
Sling - 2wt

Armor:
Helmet - 10wt
Shield - 5wt
Light Armor - 20wt

Experience:
Plauge Priests start with 20 experience, and may choose from Combat, Strength, Speed, Shooting, Academic, and Special skills
Plague Monks start with 8 experience, and may choose from Combat, Strength, Speed, and Special skills
Festering Sorcerers start with 8 Experience, and may choose from Speed, Shooting, Academic, and Special skills
Monk Initiates start with 0 experience, and may choose from Combat, Strength, Speed, and Special skills

Maximum Profile for Clan Pestilens Skaven

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 6 6 4 5 3 7 4 7

Hero:

1 Plague Priest: 75wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 4 3 4 1 5 1 7

Weapons/Armor: Plague Priest may choose equipment from the heroes equipment list

Special Rules:
Leader: All warband members within 6" may use the Plague Priests leadership instead of their own.
Immune to disease: Plague Priests are immune to all poisons and diseases.

0-2 Plague Monks: 50wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 3 3 4 1 5 1 6

Weapons/Armor: Plague Monks may choose equipment from the heroes equipment list

Special Rules:
Immune to disease: Plague Monks are immune to all poisons and diseases.

0-1 Festering Sorcerer: 50wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 4 1 5 1 6

Weapons/Armor: Festering Sorcerers may choose equipment from the heroes equipment list

Special Rules:
Wizard: A Festering Sorcerer is a magic user, and uses the Spells of the Harbringer of Plague. See Magic section below for details.
Immune to disease: Festering Sorcerers are immune to all poisons and diseases

0-2 Monk Initiates: 20wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 2 3 2 2 1 4 1 4

Weapons/Armor: Monk Initiates may choose equipment from the heroes equipment list
_______________________

0+ Monk Novices: 20wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 5

Weapons/Armor: Monk Novices may choose equipment from the henchmen equipment list

0+ Slave Rats: 10wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 2 2 3 3 1 4 1 2

Weapons/Armor: Slave Rats may choose equipment from the henchmen equipment list

Special Rules:
Slaves: Slave Rats only count count as half a warband member for purposes of when route tests are forced.
A Life of labor: Slave Rats gain experience and can roll for advancements, but if a result of the lads got talent is ever rolled, one member of that henchmen group is killed (and presumably eaten) by the warbands heroes instead of advancing.

0+ Infected giant rats: 15wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 2 0 3 3 1 4 1 4

Weapons/Armor: None. Infected giant rats may never use any weapons or armor, and suffer no penalties for doing so.

Special Rules:
Pack Size: Giant rats are not limited to 5 members per group
Animal: Giant rats do not gain experience.
Infected Bloat: when taken out of action, infected plague rats explode, cause 1 S2 hit with no armor saves to every model not immune to poison/disease within 1d3" of it. The rat is automatically killed and taken off the warband roster

0-1 Plagued Rat-Ogre: 225wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 5 5 3 4 3 4

Weapons/Armor: Plagued Rat-Ogre never use any weapons or armor, but suffer no penalties for fighting unarmed.

Special Rules:
Fear: Plagued Rat-Ogres cause fear
Stupidity: Plagued Rat-Ogres suffer from stupidity
Large Target: Plagued Rat-Ogres count as large targets
Experience: Plagued Rat-Ogres never gain experience.
Plague Spew: range: special str: 3 special rules: no armor save, 1 shot, range 1" wide, 6" long line hitting everything in between
Upkeep: a rat-ogre requires a vast amount of food to stay battle worthy. An upkeep cost of 15wt must be paid after each game to pay for food for the beast. If unwilling or unable to pay, the Rat-Ogre will eat either a slave, or a captive enemy hero. If none are available, the rat-ogre will wonder off in search of food, never to be seen again.

Special Equipment:

Plagued Dagger: Range: Close Combat Strength: As per user Special Rules: Armor Save: Plagued Daggers add +1 to enemies armor saves. Infected: A Plagued Dagger will always wound a target on a 4+ or better, regardless of the targets toughness. Enemies immune to poison/disease are wounded as per normal. 15wt, rare 8
Plagued Sword: Range: Close Combat Strength: As per user Special Rules: Parry: As per normal sword special rule. Infected: A Plagued sword will always wound a tartget on a 4+ or better, regardless of the targets toughness. Enemies immune to poison/disease are wounded as per normal. 25wt, rare 8
Censer: Range: Close Combat Strength: As per user +2 Special rules: Heavy: A Censers strength bonus only applies to the first round of combat. Two Handed: a Censer requires two hands to use effectively, and can not be combined with another weapon, shield, or buckler in close combat. Fog of Death: After a target suffers an unsaved wound from a Censer, the victim makes take a toughness test, which if failed will cause an additional wound. A roll of 6 always fails. Causes enemies -1 to hit from shooting. Any user not immune to disease must take a toughness test every turn. If it is failed, the bearer suffers a S3 hit with no save possible. 40wt, rare 10.

Special Skills:

Black Hunger: As per Skaven Skill list.
Censer Bearer: A hero with this skill gains frenzy, and may only wield a Censer in close combat from then on. Requires Black Hunger.
Contagious: Any enemy who takes a hero with this skill out of action in close combat must take a toughness test. If he fails, he will suffer 1 wound with no armor save possible. A roll of 6 always fails. Models immune to poison/disease are not effected by this.
Ignore Pain: A hero with this skill treats stunned effects as knocked down.
Liber Infecticus: (Leader only) The hero has committed the Liber Infecticus to memory, and may chant it once a game either at the beginning of a turn, or right before a route test is taken. For the remaining turn, all leadership tests are taken with a +1 bonus.

Spells:

Spells of the Harbringer of Pestilence:

1. Children of the Plagued Rat: This spell must be used before the game, and may only be used once. When cast, the spell summons D3 Infected Giant Rats, which are placed within 6" of the Sorcerer. The Sorcerer may cast this spell successfully only once per battle, and the rats disappear after the battle. They do not count towards the maximum size of the Skaven warband. Difficulty: Automatic.
2. Buboes: The Sorcerer bestows the gift of pus-filled buboes upon his enemies. This spell has a range of 8" and affects a single enemy warrior. The warrior must pass a Toughness test or lose a Wound. No Armor saves are allowed. Difficulty: 7
3. Stench of the Plagued Rat: The Sorcerer spews forth a foul, stinking mist that chokes his foes. This spell has a range of 6" and affects all living creatures – friend or foe. Each enemy warrior in range must pass a Toughness test or lose an Attack until their next turn. Difficulty: 8
4. Pestilence: The Sorcerer inflicts horrible diseases upon the unbelievers. All enemy models within 12" of the Sorcerer suffer a Strength 3 hit. No Armor saves are allowed. Difficulty: 10
5. Scabrous Hide: The Master’s skin becomes tough and leathery like that of his patron god. The Master has an armor save of 2+ which replaces any normal Armor save. The Scabrous Hide lasts until the beginning of his next Shooting phase. Difficulty: 8
6. Black Fury: The Sorcerer may immediately charge any enemy model within 12" (ignoring any terrain and interposing models) and gains 2 extra Attacks and +1 Strength during this turn’s hand-to-hand combat phase only. Difficulty: 8

Whoa, triple post.

Got some good play testing in tonight. The guy whos idea it was to start this little project up took up the reins on playtesting the list. We decided before we even started to drop the Plague Monk and Sorcerer prices to 45wt each, but we may revisit that in the future. Heres the list he played with:

Priest, Censer, Sling - 107wt
x2 Monks, plague swords, clubs, slings - 130wt
Sorcerer, plague dagger, club, sling - 58wt
x2 Monk Initiates, club, dagger, sling - 50wt

Heroes - 345wt

x3 Monk Novice club, dagger, sling - 75wt
x5 Infected Giant Rats - 75wt

Henchmen - 150wt

total - 495wt

so he was starting with a healthy 14 warband members. Personally, I would have dropped a few giants rats in favor of another Monk Novice, or maybe a couple slaves so we could see how well they operate, but it was his list to make. Played 5 games, and after the third one, his initiates had inherited the plague monks plague swords after they both picked up censers, and man, those things are dangerous. Hard to drop them, and they were often wounding on 2+, and then causing an additional wound. Steam rolled a marienburger warband after a champion, youngblood, and two swordsmen got either knocked down, stunned, or taken ooa by two exploding infect giant rats, then got mopped up by the heroes before they could get back on their feet. This band had a significantly harder time against a dwarf band though. All that strength 4, very accurate missile fire that just couldn't seem to stop critting, plus the higher toughness.

We're going to make him buy a plagued rat-ogre the next time we play so we can see what we think of that. All in all, a fun time, and we're all liking where its headed.

glad things are working out. can't wait for the next update!

thanks man! We decided that since the 4 lists we originally decided to make are kind of niche bands, none of which really represents just "normal" skaven, we'd make a 5th list thats kind of middle of the road. At first glance, it seems kind of... i dunno, blah, but that was almost the idea. We're calling it the Clan Mors list, since it didn't seem like Mors has any trait that defines them like eshin, pestilens, skyre, and moulder do. Here we go:

Min. Size: 3; Max. Size: 20

Clan Mors:

Dagger - 1st free/2nd 2wt
Club - 3wt
Sickle(axe) - 5wt
Spear - 10wt
Sword - 10wt
Halberd - 10wt
Two-Handed Weapon - 15wt
Flail - 15wt

Shooting:
Sling - 2wt
Warplock Pistol/Brace - 35wt/70wt

Armor:
Buckler - 5wt
Shield - 5wt
Helmet - 10wt
Light Armor - 20wt
Heavy Armor - 50wt

Henchmen:
Dagger - 1st free/2nd 2wt
Club - 3wt
Sword - 10wt
Spear - 10wt

Shooting:
Sling - 2wt

Armor:
Shield - 5wt
Helmet - 10wt
Light Armor - 20wt

Under-Chieftains start with 20 experience, and may choose from Combat, Speed, Shooting, Strength, Academic, and Special Skills
Lesser-Seers start with 8 experience, and may choose from Speed, Academic, and Special Skills
Stormvermin start with 8 experience, and may choose from Combat, Strength, Speed, and Special Skills

Clan Mors Special Skills:
Blank Hunger: As per normal Skaven list
Tail Fighting: As per normal Skaven list
Wall Runner: As per normal Skaven list
Strength in Numbers: Leader Only: As long as the Under-Chieftain is not OOA, Clan rats and Slave Rats may add +1 to their leadership for every member of their group not stunned or OOA.
FLEE! FLEE!: When a charge is declared against the hero, he may retreat D6" away. If this takes them outside range, the charged is failed.


Heroes:

Under-Chieftain - 60wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 4 4 3 1 5 1 7

Weapons/Armor: Under-chieftains may choose their equipment from the Heroes Equipment List

Special Rules:
Leader: Any warband member within 6" can use the Under-Chieftains leadership instead of their own.
Elite: An Under-Chieftain is usually a former Storm Vermin, and next to the chieftain, is the best equipped member of his battle force. An Under-Chieftain may purchase one piece of equipment at creation for 1/2 its usual price, rounding up.

Lesser-Seer - 45wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 6

Weapons/Armor: Lesser-Seers may choose equipment from the henchmen equipment list.

Special Rules:
Wizard: A lesser-seer is a wizard and uses magic of the horned rat. See Rule book for magic list.

0-4 Storm Vermin - 35wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 4 3 3 3 1 5 1 5

Weapons/Armor: Storm Vermin may choose their equipment from the Heroes equipment list.

Special Rules:
Elite: Storm Vermin are usually the best equipped members of whatever battle force they're a part of. Each Storm Vermin may purchase one piece of equipment at warband creation for 1/2 its usual price, rounding up.

__________________________________________________________________

0+ Clan Rats - 20wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 5

Weapons/Armor: Clan Rats may choose equipment from the henchmen equipment list

0+ Slave Rats - 10wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 2 2 3 3 1 4 1 2

Weapons/Armor: Slave Rats may choose equipment from the henchmen equipment list

Special Rules:
Slaves: Slave Rats only count count as half a warband member for purposes of when route tests are forced.
A Life of labor: Slave Rats gain experience and can roll for advancements, but if a result of the lads got talent is ever rolled, one member of that henchmen group is killed (and presumably eaten) by the warbands heroes instead of advancing.

0+ Giant Rats - 15wt to hire

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 2 0 3 3 1 4 1 4

Weapons/Armor: Giant Rats never use any weapons or armor, but suffer no penalties for fighting unarmed

Special Rules:
Pack: Giant Rats are not limited to 5 members per group
Animal: Giant Rats do not gain experience

0-1 Rat Ogre - 200wt to hire.

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 3 5 5 3 4 3 4

Weapons/Equipment: Rat Ogre never use any weapons or armor, but suffer no penalties for fighting unarmed

Special Rules:
Fear: Rat Ogres cause fear
Stupidity: Rate Ogres suffer from stupidity
Experience: Rat Ogres do not gain experience
Large Target: Rat Ogres are large targets
Upkeep: a rat-ogre requires a vast amount of food to stay battle worthy. An upkeep cost of 15wt must be paid after each game to pay for food for the beast. If unwilling or unable to pay, the Rat-Ogre will eat either a slave, or a captive enemy hero. If none are available, the rat-ogre will wonder off in search of food, never to be seen again.
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And heres our current revision of the Eshin list. We always felt like the original Eshin list wasn't particularly stealthy, with a sorcerer, run of the mill henchmen, a giant ogre, 20 members, and black powder weapons. So we made the heroes a little stronger, added a cheaper deadly weapon (dagger version of weeping blades), nixed the sorcerer and ogre, added a new henchmen type, dropped the warplocks and took a note from coreheim and added repeater crossbows for them. Also, they're starting off at 550wt instead of 500, since the council themselves are the ones funding eshin forays into Mordheim. Let me know what you think:

Clan Eshin

Min. Size: 3; Max. Size: 15. 550wt to start.

Assassin Equipment:

Combat:
Dagger - 1st free/2nd 2wt
Katar(axe) - 5wt
Sword - 10wt
Flail - 15wt
Halberd - 10wt
Fighting Claws - 35wt
Weeping Daggers - 20wt
Weeping Blades - 40wt

Shooting:
Sling - 2wt
Throwing Stars - 15wt
Blowpipe - 25wt
Repeater Crossbow - 35wt

Armor:
Helmet - 10wt
Light Armor - 20wt
Buckler - 5wt

Equipment:
Black Lotus - 10wt
Rope and Hook - 5wt

Gutter Runner Equipment:

Close Combat:
Dagger - 1st free/2nd 2wt
Katar(axe) - 5wt
Sword - 10wt
Weeping Daggers - 25wt

Shooting:
Sling - 2wt
Throwing Stars - 15wt
Repeater Crossbow - 35wt

Armor:
Helmet - 10wt
Light Armor - 20wt

Verminkin Equipment:

Close Combat:
Dagger - 1st free/2nd 2wt
Club - 3wt
Sword - 10wt
Spear - 10wt

Shooting:
Sling - 2wt

Armor:
Helmet - 10wt
Shield - 5wt
Light Armor - 10wt

Adept start with 20 exp and may choose from Combat, Strength, Shooting, Speed, Academic, and Special Skills
Black Skaven start with 8 exp and may choose from Combat, Strength, Shooting, Speed, and Special Skills
Night Runners start with 0 exp and may choose from Speed, Shooting, and Special Skills

Special Skills:
Black Hunger, Infiltration, Tail Fighting, Wall Runner, and Art of Silent Death as per original Clan Eshin list

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Heroes:

1 Adept - 70wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 5 4 4 3 1 5 1 7

Weapons/Armor: Adept may choose their equipment from the Assassin equipment list

Special Rules:
Leader: Any warband member within 6" of the Adept may use his leadership instead of their own.
Perfect Killer: All attacks made by the adept, Close Combat and Shooting, add +1 to injury rolls.
Loner: Adepts are veteran assassins and are used to operating on their own. Adepts never have to take all alone tests.

0-2 Black Skaven - 45wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 4 3 4 3 1 5 1 6

Weapons/Armor: Black Skaven may choose their equipment from the Assassin equipment list

Special Rules:
Loner: Black Skaven are all veteran assassins and are used to operating on their own. Black Skaven never have to take all alone tests.

0-3 Night Runners - 25wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 4

Weapons/Armor: Night Runners may choose their equipment from the Assassin equipment list

__________________________________________________ ___________________

Henchmen:

0-3 Gutter Runners - 50wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 3 3 3 1 5 1 6

Weapons/Armor: Gutter Runners may choose their equipment from the Gutter Runner equipment list

Special Rules:
Infilitrators: Gutter Runners start with the infiltration special skill

0+ Verminkin - 20wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
5 3 3 3 3 1 4 1 5

Weapons/Armor: Verminkin may choose their equipment from the Verminkin equipment list

0+ Giant Rats - 15wt

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 2 0 3 3 1 4 1 4

Weapons/Armor: Giant Rats never use weapons or armor, but suffer no penalties for fighting unarmed

Special Rules:
Pack Size: Giant Rats are not limited to 5 members per group
Animal: Giant Rats never gain experience
__________________________________________________ ___________________

Special Equipment:

Weeping Daggers:

Range: Close Combat Strength: As user Special Rules: Save Modifier: as per normal daggers Pair: Weeping Daggers are traditionally used as a pair, one in each hand. A warrior armed with weeping daggers gains an additional attack. Poisonous: Weeping Daggers are permanently coated in black lotus. Additional poison may not be added. 25wt, rare 9

So the Mors and Eshin lists posted here will be getting their first playtesting tonight, and the pestilens list from last week will be joining us again tonight. Any suggestions for me to bring up?

The mors looks neat (I was tempted to make one myself.) In my loose version, they had heroes similar to the default Eshin list, but had elite Storm Vermin Henchmen available. I think the Storm Vermin also had the rule, "gains first strike when using a halberd", just like a spear. It makes your high initiative-d units strike even faster.

I'd advice it as a skill, but with the skaven having access to Speed skills, it's kinda pointless.

I know it's changing things, but I wound if Giant Rats should have WS3. Dogs have WS4, (as well as a higher strength), so I doubt it will break them. Or, maybe add the Slave "half a warband level" to them, to make them more expendable.

Hmm... i'd never even really thought about the comparison between warhounds and giant rats, but you're right. They're getting a really raw deal. I think I'll make them cheaper, and also make them really good climbers so they can more easily harass shooters. Thats not a bad idea about adding the half a warband level for them too, since i really can't see skaven caring if they lose a rat or two.

The games last night were fun. The pestilens list continued to do well, until they up with a beastmen warband a new guy brought. Just got torn apart. He made some tactical errors, namely rushing to get into close combat, since he had been doing so well with it before. The problem of course being that beast men are just as fast as skaven, and were just as tough. Then the chieftain and centigor got involved, and it was all over. The pestilens guy lost several henchmen post game, and his sorcerer and initiates got hit with some pretty bad serious injuries. I think he learned from his mistake though, and will probably step a little lighter next time around.

Mors actually didn't end up getting a run through last night since we were already playtesting the chaos dwarves, pestilens, and another guy really wanted to give eshin a try. Its almost not worth noting the changes to the eshin list, as they seemed to play almost identically to how they originally did, at least at creation. As they go along that may change, since they won't have access to the warplocks, will max out at 15 fighters, and won't be buying a rat ogre, so we'll see.

Henchmen: How's this?

Rats: Stats, as are, 10gc, half size, experience
Slaves: Stats is (although, LD4 might be better... so they fail most tests, but it's not impossible) - 15gc, experience, but killed with a TLGT roll
Clan Rats - As normal

The progression seems logical... slaves are worth more than rats, clan rats more than slaves.

Eshin: What if the Eshin rats could climb? Making them specially bred, ninja rats.

0+ Eshin: 15gc, WS 3, can climb
0-5 Pest: 15gc, WS3, plague bomb
0-5 Clan Moulder - Rat Hounds. 15gc, same stats as Warhounds, count as a FULL model for route.
0+ Skyre - 10 gc, WS 2. Warlock can purchase a "Scroll of the Rat Familiar" at warband start up (from the Pestilans list)
0+ Mor - 10gc, WS 2.
(Unless stated otherwise, each rat counts as half a model for casualties. If that's the case, then Eshin & Pest can probably be fine with max size 15 or 18, while Skyre, Moulder, & Mor have 20.)

Thus, each rat is slightly different.

Gutter Runners: By my count, they're at 40-45 gc (+3 minor increases [at 5gc each] and a skill [5-10gc]).
As a thought, what if they had Ld5 (like the other skavs), and WS 2? That would make them faster for move and in combat, but just as cowardly and WORSE fighters. The reason to keep them is to steal treasure and to snipe. Cost-wise, they'd be about 30, which makes them accessible and fit the "life is cheap" philosophy of skaven.

good idea on all the giant rats. I think I'll implement those for the remaining clans. As far as the gutter runners, i would normally go by the 10gc for a skill philosophy, but infiltration is a very power skill, especially since it can almost make sure that the entire enemy warband can't run the entire game if the skaven get first turn. Also, I wary of making them as bad as night runners, since gutter runners are supposed to be a step up from night runners. All things to consider though.

Strength in Numbers: Just noticed this skill for the first time. Awesome idea. However, I'd alter it to:

Strength in Numbers: Leader Only: As long as the Under-Chieftain is not OOA, Clan rats and Slave Rats may add +1 to their leadership for every other member of their henchman group not stunned, fleeing or OOA.

The "other" part is more of a clarification, and the fleeing seems a realistic addition... if your buddy is leaving you, you're less likely to stand and fight.

good idea on clarifying that. I'm thinking that skill will make it into the molder list as well. Anyone have any special ideas for them? Cause I have a couple, but not enough to fill out a list.

Moulder:

1 Master Moulder -
Skaven leader stats
Master Driver: If the Master Moulder is armed with a Steel Whip or Spear, all Giant Rats, Slaves, or Rat Ogres models within range of the Master's Leader range (normally 6") may use the Master's leadership AND reroll the result once, accepting the second result.

0-2 Pack Masters
Driver - If armed with a steep whip or a spear, any Giant Rat, Slave, or Rat Ogre within 6" of the Packmaster may use ONE of the following bonuses at any given time: it reroll any failed leadership test once, OR may use the Packmaster's Leadership instead of his own. He may not gain both bonuses at once.

0-3 Experiments (alt names: Lab Rats, Skaven Mutants) - 20gc
Skaven Youngbloods, but may purchase a mutations from the Possesed list (pick which ones, based on flavor). Or, if they don't want to BUY one, they may roll for a free mutation from the Power of the Stones Chart (meaning, they can get an awesome one for free, or a devastating one.)

HENCHMAN
0+ Verminkin
0+ slaves - maybe drop this if you want... not needed, really. (Alt. Give giant rats for 10gc, and rat hounds for 15-20? with two forms of rats AND rat ogres, it would have a very animal-breeder feel to the warband.)
0-5 Rat Hounds
0-1 Rat Ogres - May purchase ONE mutation from the above list.
(OR maybe 0-2 Rat Ogres, without mutations... not cheap, mind you, but 2 ogres would be an unstoppable force.)

Special Skills:
Mutation: May purchase a single Mutation from the select list, paying for it.

Master Trainer: Pick any Giant Rat / Rat Hound henchman group which has no more than 5 models in it. That group immediately gains a free roll on the Henchman Advancement table, rerolling any results of "That Lad's Got Talent.) In the case of Rat Hounds, reroll any results of "Strength" (they can NEVER go above S4.) The group permanently gains this advancement, and is treated as being the next Experience level up (so, a group with 0 exp goes up to 2, a group with 2 goes up to 5.) If the group has fewer than 5 members, you may hire and rehire members to join into the group, although you must roll for Experience and pay an additional 2gc per experience point, following the normal rules for hiring experienced henchmen. A hero may learn this skill multiple times, but each group may never have each stat increased beyond +1, and a Rat Hound will never have more than S4. Without the aide of this skill, the animals may not gain experience, as per the normal rules.

really good ideas there. I'll probably incorporate alot of those when I get around to it.

So I liked the pestilens list so much that I decided to start a warband too. Check 'em out here, critiques appreciated: pestilens warband

sorry for the double post

what would you think of dropping the hero count on moulder to 5 or maybe even 4, making the rat ogre significantly cheaper for them, and maybe raising their starting WT to 600 since they're supposed to be extremely wealthy. Thoughts on that?

Hero count: what's the make-up of the heroes and henchman so far? That makes a lot of the difference. To repeat what Mordheimer drilled into my head, it also depends on your vision... do you want them a group of mutaters, breeders, pack herders, what?

Money: Not so sure about that. I'd give them 600 gc OR lower the rat ogre- I wouldn't do both, seems like overkill. Or, to repeat my suggestion from earlier, give them a full-priced rat ogre, but they can buy 0-2 of them.

Though you're not thinking of it quite yet(?), I'm writing up a campaign and added a light jezzail that might fit into any future Clan Skyre list:

Light Jezzail – 250gc, Rare 11, Skaven only.

A more man(rat)-portable version of the Jezzail weapon system, this warp-lock weapon can be carried and used by a single warrior, though the recoil is ferocious, the ammunition costly and the weapon itself is hard to acquire (much spine-back stabbing yes-yes?).

Range: 48”, Strength: 5, Special Rules: Move or fire, Prepare shot, Pick target, Save modifier, Recoil.

Save modifier: Light Jezzails are even better at penetrating armour than their Strength 5 suggests. A warrior wounded by a long rifle must make his armour save with a -3 modifier.

Recoil: Unless the model carrying the Light Jezzail has a base Strength of 4 or higher or a friendly model that doesn't run or shoot is in base contact, each time it's fired the model is Knocked Down.

Cool. Could work. In the Hired Sword section of Sartosa, there's a Jezzail Cannon- it's basically a modified Swivel Gun from the pirate list. Much better than the swivel, but the misfire chart is ridiculously bad.

both of those sound interesting. I was thinking that I'd include a more typical jezzail rifle and a more regular handgun sized one as well, but this is something to think about too. I was also thinking that I wouldn't allow skyre heroes to use slings, or at least not have it on their starting equipment list, since I can't imagine the masters of skaven technology eschewing their own inventions in favor of a rag and stone.

Speaking of all this, the testing continues. A Clan Mors warband was started, and its doing alright. It really just plays alot like the original skaven list, so not much to report there. The Clan Pestilens list continues to excel, but alot of that is that A) the guy playing them is the only guy other than me who has been playing since Mordheim was created, and B) the dice gods favor him. He has a preternatural ability to roll 6s. Clan Eshin is doing alright too. Despite the boosts to the heroes, the real stars of the show are the gutter runners. That many infiltrators with that kind of movement speed can easily continue the speed with the opposing warband can move. We like how its going though, because its a new challenge to try to overcome, without it feeling terribly overpower, though that might change if all his heroes pick up infiltrate as well.

In short, everything is going swimmingly. Lots of games being played, and these guys are well on their way to being RATified... see what i did there? Lame puns aside, I need to kick it in gear with the Skyre and Moulder lists though, it'd be nice for all the play testing on the five lists to wrap up at the same time.

Historically speaking, slings were superior to the bows of the time to the point that fortresses of the time were built around their use, but slings were eventually abandoned in favour of bows for the same reason that bows were abandoned in favour fire-arms i.e. the very long time it took to train someone to be actually good at it.

Given that, it makes a great deal of sense for Skyre to abandon slings in favour of firearms.

I suspect that the only reason Skaven still use slings at all is because a sling is very cheap to make (so good for giving to slaves) and very easy to carry and hide (so good for assassins - something they can use when they need more range than a throwing knife or blow dart).

Skyre weapons: Well, the following makes sense for them:

Warp Pistols
Handguns
Jezzail Handguns (as you have listed)
Blunderbuss (maybe)
Crossbow Pistols

In theory, crossbows would be fluffy, although they're a bit strong. Maybe a repeater crossbow, or a ratty version of the repeater. Such as:

Stonebow (a crossbow that shoots lead shot or stones.)
Longer range than a sling: 24"? (30"?)
Strength 3
Can fire twice at half range, with -1 to hit
Can't move and shoot.
Cost: 10gc

And, to go with it:

Warpstone Shot
15gc, rarity 5,
Increases the strength of a Stonebow or Blackpowder Weapon by +1 Strength. Enough to last one game. May not be used with Warplock Pistols or Jezzails, which already use Warpstone shot.
EDIT: Should also add, "may not be stacked with Superior Gunpowder" ... THAT would be nasty!

The light jezzail was more a warplock-hockland than a warplock-handgun (+1 Str and recoil). Maybe the latter too?

Also, what about some wierd and wonderful warplock engineer gadgets and things? Like warpfire throwers, warp lighting pistols and such.