Night Goblins - New Warband, v1.0

Are you talking about their starting cap or their stats? As it stands I find the troll borderline unplayable at LD 7. If you drop it to 6 you may as well remove it from their options.

Earthcrosser599 wrote:

Are you talking about their starting cap or their stats? As it stands I find the troll borderline unplayable at LD 7. If you drop it to 6 you may as well remove it from their options.

Starting stats.

Also, as far as Night Goblins and Fantasy is concerned, I've played pure Night Goblins across 3 editions of WHFB. Someone said it before in that you're missing the point if you expect the Troll to actually be useful for more then half of the game. The fact he is big, can provide cover to everyone else, can never die, and can always pop that magical auto strength 5 ignore armour save vomit attack is enough of a threat that an opponent will have to seriously consider dealing with it in a game or ignore it and risk it actually doing something useful for the Night Goblins. In any case, you could always buy a few Warhorns to up the Leadership of the boss each turn, but that's neither here nor there. Ld 7 isn't playable for you with an average roll to pass meaning more then half the time the Troll is useful, that's actually damned good ina Night Goblin's book. You need tor emember it's a Night Goblin Warband NOT a Common Goblin Warband or any other sort of Warband. Night Goblins don't have great leadership as they tend to live underground in the dark and being above ground is harsh as for them. Ld 7 on a Night Goblin is reserved to a Night Goblin Warlord for comparison in actual stats. We're looking at a small group of fighters not a vast army numberings everal hundred to thousand strong...

But in Fantasy, Stupidity ceases to be an issue once the troll gets into combat. As far as I remember, in Mordheim he still has to make a stupidity check even when he's in close combat.

I'm not saying he needs to be contributing ever turn, but when you have something with a 15 gold upkeep, a 200 gold starting price, and the drawback of not doing anything the majority of the time, I couldn't ever justify taking it. But if your leader is not capping out at LD 6 then that becomes a nonissue.

If the Troll is in combat and standing though the enemy have to attack the troll and the troll can regenerate from wounds as well. It's an expensive model and operates as a Hired Sword in upkeep effects but regardless is still worth the investment. The world isn't perfect, least of all for a Night Goblin herding a Troll into battle. In WHFB you usually stick a Big Boss with the Troll also a nice Ld 6 or 7 beats the Ld 4 of the trolls but you have to just learn to use the Troll as a distraction. He may not do too much directly, but indirectly, when properly supported and played he becomes incredibly useful. Look at the Troll as a Finesse Unit, you need alot of practice and tactical acumen to get it right with him. It was meant to be easy then you'd be playing Orcs instead.

As a piece of advice for your next games with him, remember most scenario's don't have a turn limit. Shamble forward moving from cover to cover, the Troll is a fire magnet so use that to your advantage, hide behind him with a counter charging force and try to think of innovative ways to pivot your strategy for the game around the Troll. He costs 15gc's each battle so use his abilities both physical and psychological to your advantage. At the very least he won't die so you can happily use him as 1 big giant bodyguard.

Another way to look at the situation is a comparison to Squigs. You need to stagger the Night Goblin advance to remain within 6"'s always else the Squigs go wild and you're ina bit of trouble with them. Keeping them under control without Prodders (and even with them) takes alot of forethought and planning ahead. Apply the same sort of reasoning with the Troll and you'll soon get the hang of it. Night Goblins, by their very nature are a difficult warband and an underdog against even the weaker warbands in the core rules, but once you start planning ahead a few turns and moving accordingly stuff starts to happen. At the very least remember to hug cover.

Cheers,

Ram.

P.S. To my first question, is the list of rules linked in the very first post the most updated list of rules for these guys?

I think the new rules is like halfway down. You'll know because there's actual stuff on the backround and pictures instead of just a white piece of paper with writing on it.

As far as the troll goes, I can't really compare it to Squigs because I haven't taken Squigs yet, and there's a much bigger difference between keeping a random goblin close to the front and keeping your warband leader close to the front. I'll try and see how well it works when I make a melee list, but at the moment, almost everything I have is shooting.

I just want to point out that the original rules as seen here:
http://www.mordheimer.com/downloads/ex_wrbnds/Night_Goblins_v3.21.pdf

...are the springboard for which my efforts are based. I am not the author of the above warband! Terry Maltmen is, whoever that is...

The latest version of my warband can be found here:
./Night_Goblin_Warband_ver._0.3.pdf] EDIT: SEE FIRST POST

Please note that my version number is unrelated to the the original Night Goblin warband, and is simply for my own organizational purposes.

The newest version of my warband, which was inspired by the above list and borrows heavily from Mark Havener's Orc & Goblins and the Forest Goblin Waband, is still very much a work in progress. I hope to form into a finished product after much play testing and input from you guys!

Now with that said, i am thrilled that people are playing my warband, and discussing it... I'm not so thrilled that the shooty list has become routine and boring, as EarthXr says! Hopefully the new hero I'm working on will add some flavor and fun! Please keep up your efforts, obviously you are able to game more than i am, and your input is much appreciated! A balanced warband is no good if it is boring to run.

Ram Rock, I actually have never played WHFB so i don't know how NG compare to regular Gobs, very interesting. All things considered... If Mordheim is based off of the 3rd? (i think) edition rules, were you playing the army then? If so how did their stats compare to regular goblins back then? I'd like to stick true to the period of warhammer that mordheim was based off of.

Your take on the Troll is very accurate. He is a pivot around which the warband can operate, a large, neigh unkillable target to distract the opponent while you sneak around and fulfill objectives. But the warband itself is hopefully equally valid with or without the troll, regardless of his fear effect!

Yes! Squigs are great! They act as exceptional cannon fodder, and for what you pay in gold, they are far superior to Snotlings. Snotlings are mainly included as a flavorful novelty! Who can resist classic snotling models?

Addressing the Fanatic; you'll see that i have previously stated in this topic that this model, with the always-strike-first rule, is a little bit of an and over embellishment by the original author. In my version he losses that ability and instead is allowed to gain experience as a henchman, but cannot become a hero. I believe that this is a fair trade considering the strength or the ball and chain and the fact thet the Fanatic functions as a hired sword as well after factoring in fungus costs!

On a final note i just can't fathom reducing the maximum leadership of Night Goblins to 6 and allowing them to be a viable warband!

I played another game tonight.

I would not call the troll unkillable. I think just about every warband I play against can probably take it out in a single turn if they focus on it. They usually choose not to because even if they take it out of action, they're now sitting there with 17 bows aimed at them, four of which can fire twice and all of which have at least BS 4.

Okay, maybe it's because my warband rating is 200+ beyond everyone elses, but the amassed shooting does get old very very quickly. People don't want to get near you, even the ones who are made for close combat. So the games have become me slowly moving people around until my leader with a Hunting Rifle is able to take a shot off at someone. I do concede that this is likely a fault in the people I play with more than the warband rules. The shooting is very effective.

I'm very curious as to how warbands catch up to ones that are higher rating than them. Everyone I play gets +3 through +5 experience because of how much higher mine is, but they don't seem to ever close the gap between us. If anything, it keeps getting bigger, which I don't understand.

Once my warband hits a 500 rating, not including the hired swords, I'm going to retire it and make the melee version and check it out. One of the things I'm excited about is the fanatic weapons. If I get the weapon training skill, can I allow my heroes to use the ball and chain or the poisoned daggers?

The troll is neigh unkillable in a permanent sense. It can go down pretty easily with an unlucky string of regeneration rolls, especially against cc specialists like Possessed!

The ball and chain and the poisoned daggers say Fanatic only in their descriptions; so no, you can't have 8 ball and chains!!

Ram rock, since you are a self proclaimed power gamer, I'd like you poke a few holes in my warband. From your perspective you may find flaws i never considered, if you don't mind.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:

The ball and chain and the poisoned daggers say Fanatic only in their descriptions; so no, you can't have 8 ball and chains!!

Once you get the skill Weapons Training (or is it expert for melee) it doesn't matter. For the same reason as a Mercenary can wield a pair of skaven only Fighting Claws or Weeping Blades that he has captured throughout the campaign, can your Night Goblins use the Fanatic only weapons. The rule as far as I know applies to the initial warband but once you get the skills up you can start having 6 ball and chains or poisoned daggers floating around. Remember though that whilst powerful, you need magic mushrooms to use the ball and chain and the ball and chain has an increased injury chart as well as the side effects eventually of your guy having to test for stupidity thanks to the mad cap mushrooms screwing you, so that at least is balanced. The poisoned daggers, well meh, your opponent will find a way to deal with a prolific amount of them.

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Ram rock, since you are a self proclaimed power gamer, I'd like you poke a few holes in my warband. From your perspective you may find flaws i never considered, if you don't mind.

I'll poke, but your link went to some random file sharing site that asked you to pay for it or when youc licked free user it asked for you to register and pay and other crap so I left it be. Can you just post the list in thread, or send it my way as an attachment in an email?

To 3rd ed Gobbo's, yep was playing then, still the same IIRC, though Forest Goblins were also still around at the time too, not goen and back again just as spider riders. To the Night Goblins not being manageable at max Ld 6 well you have numbers, you're routing at 4 or 5 members down, you also should be packing a Lucky Rabbits Foot or a Holy relic or a Warhorn or all 3 on your Boss so as you pass those first few tests anyways. But all they are are a bunch of more scared skaven really at the end of the day. Maybe throw in a rule that when in deep caves or underground they get +1 Ld. Makes Karrak Azgul games better for em at least.

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Earthcrosser599
I would not call the troll unkillable. I think just about every warband I play against can probably take it out in a single turn if they focus on it. They usually choose not to because even if they take it out of action, they're now sitting there with 17 bows aimed at them, four of which can fire twice and all of which have at least BS 4.

Your point? Wow they can killa big target in one turn, you'd be complaining if it was mid campaign witha Rat Ogre, there comes a point those guys aren't worth the investment and this is why. Your Troll, who cares, he can't die so long as you pay up. Let them waste all the power killing him instead of forcing you to break.

And wow, a shooting warband. Initiative 4 or 5 max, maybe a lantern on a few guys to give you a spotting diostance of 8-9inches. Why aren't your opponents movinga nd hiding and charging your whole warband in one big go. If you don't go to them, why should they go to you? Everyone can play the waiting game till the guy with the massive shooting force starts moving and shooting as he closes.

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Okay, maybe it's because my warband rating is 200+ beyond everyone elses, but the amassed shooting does get old very very quickly. People don't want to get near you, even the ones who are made for close combat. So the games have become me slowly moving people around until my leader with a Hunting Rifle is able to take a shot off at someone. I do concede that this is likely a fault in the people I play with more than the warband rules. The shooting is very effective.

re: above. Why aren't your opponents hugging cover and movinge ach turn and hiding? Or are you guys playing with next to no rubble, barricades, terrain? If so simple solution. Buy a small box of wood chips or matchsticks. hold it above the tabel after terrain is placed and drop random chunks across the board. Easy cover gives more of a ruined feel. Bet you won't be sitting pretty with terrain everywhere.

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I'm very curious as to how warbands catch up to ones that are higher rating than them. Everyone I play gets +3 through +5 experience because of how much higher mine is, but they don't seem to ever close the gap between us. If anything, it keeps getting bigger, which I don't understand.

17 of your guys survive, plus you win, that's 18 exp, throw in any for kills or mission objectives lets assume you're at 20-25 exp per game. Opponents have 12-15 guys if lucky, lets assume 9. They all survive they gain +3 or +5 on top of the +1 for surviving = 4-6 exp just for not dying =36 to 54 exp. Give it 10 games and you'll be more then even. How many people are you killing permenantly anyways?

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As far as the troll goes, I can't really compare it to Squigs because I haven't taken Squigs yet, and there's a much bigger difference between keeping a random goblin close to the front and keeping your warband leader close to the front. I'll try and see how well it works when I make a melee list, but at the moment, almost everything I have is shooting.

Troll has a large base, move the troll up, move behind it directly and hide behind it. You can hide behind models you know, sucks to be the guy in front. Use 2 cheap henchies on the side if anyone gets spotted it's the henchies and they fall before the Boss gets hit. And your leader is what 16-28 inches from the front anyways with his shortbow. Wait Longrifle, fair enough.

Your opponents aren't hiding enough, sounds like - you're ahead because your opponents aren't patient and keep getting killed early on. Even with the rifle you should have a maximum shooting range of 9 or so inches cause your Initiative isn't great for spotting hidden models. Anyone with Leap and sprint should be in position to charge you and get you ebfore you get a single shot off. Solution: Pistolier and a brace of crossbow pistols, will give you at least a bit of an edge against such opponents. But seriously skaven, M6, Sprint, leap = 19-24 inch charge. Possessed with Cloven Hoofs and the same = 22-27 inch charge. If that skaven has a flying spell turn it into 31-36 inch charge, or with magical aptitude 43-48 inch charge. Why are you so far ahead and everyone is so far behind? Because your opponents aren't thinking or playing for the long term. 6, 7 games of throwing cheap guys at you that are expendabvle and legging it will give you all like an hour or 2 max of gaming and suddenly your Night Goblins are in all sorts of trouble as you can't deal with combatants properly in this current build...

Any of your friends reading this? If so, you can even this situation out, just play more tactically and get something fast to take out the heroes, even if you suicide all your heroes to get into combat with all of their heroes and OOA them before you go, you'llc ancel his income and eventually his troll is gone or he starts selling equipment off at half price to keep the troll and then eventually the troll goes anyways. Heh.

:p

Ram.

Ram Rock Ed First wrote:

Once you get the skill Weapons Training (or is it expert for melee) it doesn't matter. For the same reason as a Mercenary can wield a pair of skaven only Fighting Claws or Weeping Blades that he has captured throughout the campaign, can your Night Goblins use the Fanatic only weapons.


I'll poke, but your link went to some random file sharing site that asked you to pay for it or when you clicked free user it asked for you to register and pay and other crap so I left it be. Can you just post the list in thread, or send it my way as an attachment in an email?
[/size]

:p

Ram.

Well in that case there is nothing stopping someone from taking 8 ball-and-chains, except severe beatings from his opponents, not talking about in the game either!

Oh and all you have to do is wait 30 seconds before downloading!

Ram Rock Ed First wrote:

Your point? Wow they can killa big target in one turn, you'd be complaining if it was mid campaign witha Rat Ogre, there comes a point those guys aren't worth the investment and this is why. Your Troll, who cares, he can't die so long as you pay up. Let them waste all the power killing him instead of forcing you to break.

And wow, a shooting warband. Initiative 4 or 5 max, maybe a lantern on a few guys to give you a spotting diostance of 8-9inches. Why aren't your opponents movinga nd hiding and charging your whole warband in one big go. If you don't go to them, why should they go to you? Everyone can play the waiting game till the guy with the massive shooting force starts moving and shooting as he closes.

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be sarcastic or not. There is a rat ogre in the game, but I haven't watched the games with him in it enough to know how well it works.

I couldn't tell you why my opponents don't do what you're suggesting. I don't know. I think once someone did something along those lines but all he was able to take out were henchmen, whereas I was able to shoot at heroes.

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Why aren't your opponents hugging cover and movinge ach turn and hiding? Or are you guys playing with next to no rubble, barricades, terrain? If so simple solution. Buy a small box of wood chips or matchsticks. hold it above the tabel after terrain is placed and drop random chunks across the board. Easy cover gives more of a ruined feel. Bet you won't be sitting pretty with terrain everywhere.

We have a bunch of terrain. That wood chip thing is a good idea though. Again, I can't answer for why the people I play with do and don't do certain things.

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17 of your guys survive, plus you win, that's 18 exp, throw in any for kills or mission objectives lets assume you're at 20-25 exp per game. Opponents have 12-15 guys if lucky, lets assume 9. They all survive they gain +3 or +5 on top of the +1 for surviving = 4-6 exp just for not dying =36 to 54 exp. Give it 10 games and you'll be more then even. How many people are you killing permenantly anyways?

One of the guys is down to like 4 people because of how many he's permanently lost, but he's sort of a special case and doesn't reflect everyone else. I agree with you on your math, I gain approximately 20 experience each game, but every time I play people tell me that they're 200-300 below me and thus get loads of experience. My rating keeps going up, and so should theirs, but each game they're the same distance from me.

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Troll has a large base, move the troll up, move behind it directly and hide behind it. You can hide behind models you know, sucks to be the guy in front. Use 2 cheap henchies on the side if anyone gets spotted it's the henchies and they fall before the Boss gets hit. And your leader is what 16-28 inches from the front anyways with his shortbow. Wait Longrifle, fair enough.

Your opponents aren't hiding enough, sounds like - you're ahead because your opponents aren't patient and keep getting killed early on. Even with the rifle you should have a maximum shooting range of 9 or so inches cause your Initiative isn't great for spotting hidden models. Anyone with Leap and sprint should be in position to charge you and get you ebfore you get a single shot off. Solution: Pistolier and a brace of crossbow pistols, will give you at least a bit of an edge against such opponents. But seriously skaven, M6, Sprint, leap = 19-24 inch charge. Possessed with Cloven Hoofs and the same = 22-27 inch charge. If that skaven has a flying spell turn it into 31-36 inch charge, or with magical aptitude 43-48 inch charge. Why are you so far ahead and everyone is so far behind? Because your opponents aren't thinking or playing for the long term. 6, 7 games of throwing cheap guys at you that are expendabvle and legging it will give you all like an hour or 2 max of gaming and suddenly your Night Goblins are in all sorts of trouble as you can't deal with combatants properly in this current build...

If they get into combat with me at all I'm in trouble, never mind extreme charges like that. I told the guy with 4 people that I wouldn't shoot at him during the Street Fight scenario and he was slicing through my guys like they weren't even there.

But thanks for answering my question.

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Any of your friends reading this? If so, you can even this situation out, just play more tactically and get something fast to take out the heroes, even if you suicide all your heroes to get into combat with all of their heroes and OOA them before you go, you'llc ancel his income and eventually his troll is gone or he starts selling equipment off at half price to keep the troll and then eventually the troll goes anyways. Heh.

Again, the troll is the last thing they care about. They usually kill it in 1 turn, sometimes with just 1 guy. I hope they read this forum. The game has largely ceased to be interesting for me because of their apparent lack of strategy.

Get ready for a big update this time!

Night_Goblin_Warband_ver._0.4.pdf EDIT: SEE FIRST POST

Change log:

1. I have replaced one of the 4 boring bosses with a Squig Herder, inspired by Warhammer Online. His ability to train one special Squig with wacky skills should add the fun and close-combat punch this warband was missing, besides Fanatics of course!
   
2. I have tweaked Snotlings again. Experience was proving them to be too good at tying up enemies for almost no reward when they do finally squash them all. They are now worth half an experience point and do not count as friendly models for all-alone tests.
   
3. Squigs once again count as half a model for rout purposes, like they did in the O&G list. I have no idea why i dropped that in the first place.
   
4. The Magic Gubbins have been removed and made into a weaker version which the shaman can search for automatically each game, the downside being he never searches for wyrdstone...
   
5. I gave Night Goblins the Too Big rule that Halflings had. Previously Goblins were limited to Henchmen only so seeing them with large weapons was not an issue. Now however i feel this rule is needed. I have included a special piece of equipment to get around this rule, but it is costly. The main reason i included it is for modeling possibilities, imagine a Goblin with a Hochland held up by a Snotling!
   
6. I added my favorite version of the Fungus Farmer rule and returned regular Madcaps to their 25gc cost. Fanatics are now viable, as is a warband full of stupid heroes!
   
7. The Big Boss may now take a skill to use strength skills at the insistence of Figgy and to make the awesome Big Boss with two-handed axe model a viable choice. Hey it's not the first time rules have been altered to cater to the models!
   
8. I tweaked netter to work in the first round of any combat the risk being that you strike last no matter what! It seems overpowered, but keep in mind that you need to hit, the target must fail a strength test, and nets are one use items costing 5gc each.
   
9. Play testing has proved Boss Poles are too good. They allow one to cheaply negate the one major drawback of greenskins. I added a clause that makes them only work if line of sight is present, which only makes sense, and forces you to make tough decisions when multiple goals are necessary. Want to be more efficient? Buy more Boss Poles
   
10. Various formatting changes and i credited GW for the wonderful artwork!
    

Well that's all i can remember. It brings me great joy to create a warband, and i love hearing how players feel, and seeing and hearing about their games with the Night Gobbos!

As always send your comments and constructive criticisms.

After playing last night, I ran across a couple of corrections that do not warrant a new edition, so apply these when using Night Goblins version 0.4:

1. Bows should be removed from the Hero equipment list. This was added without thought to my original intentions of starting warbands having access to only shortbows.
   
2. The Obedience rule for the Squig Herder should be replaced with the following version:
   

Code:

Obedience: The Squig Herder's pet may move less than it's full 2d6" and it never runs wild, if it ends up outside the herder's control it will simply move as fast as possible to get in control range.  If the Herder is taken out of action the Squig will be removed from the table as well.  Any captured results count as full recovery due to the pet Squig's fierce protection.

I have yet to get my pet squig to gain a skill, it keeps dying! I'll report back when i have playtested further...

Fungomungus here with a thought on a Night Gobbo hero idea, what about a Fungus Farmer? Plain a simple, I see a pic of a NG with a farmers hat and a hoe with a piece of wheat or fungus stem hanging out

U could make him with the 'shroom picka quality, a random amount of shrooms and one he can use for himself. U know one for them..one for me... two for them... one, two more for me...

So in the end u have a boss thats totally wigged out and have yet another space cadet in the warband

-Fungus for Fungo

you can safely allow henchmen to use lt armour and it will even come in handy if you ever choose to promote one

nice going with the snotling helper

the shaman special rule is unccessary

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Fungomungus: I have a skill called Fungus Farmer, that fits the bill nicely for Night Goblins. It seems to work since it is based off of the Dark Elf Poison Master Skill, but i have yet to take it in my play testing. My philosophy with home-brewed rules is copy as much as possible from actual published rules and hope they are balanced! Playtesting can only tell me so much, i don't have the time to play as much as i would like.

Having a dedicated farmer hero would prevent people from giving all their heroes the skill and abusing an abundance of madcaps, but remember that any mushrooms not used immediately in a game are lost and may not be sold for profit (those that come from the skill that is). Considering this, and the side effects of Madcap use, it will not not be an issue in the long run... i think.

I love the conversion idea though, I'd like to make that model for a hero with the skill!

Asp: I dislike the shaman rule as well, it will be removed in the next version. This warband needs income to pay for Trolls, Fanatics, and constantly dying Squigs; disallowing the him to search for wyrdstone proved to be a bad call, considering I always forget to re-roll the magic test anyway!

In the next version I will tweak the Snotling 'Elper a little bit, but his utility will remain intact.
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In the next version of the warband i am thinking about dropping sniper and having another fungus related skill...

By the way, my play testing has determined that Squig Herder = FUN! Remember to add the Pet Squig's experience to your warband rating folks! I ave found it is good to have the Pet act as a guard dog for the Herder until the duo gets a few skills, at which point you can go on the offensive!

Snotlings in WFB are immune to psychology, making them great for tar pit tactics. Is this something you want to avoid for the snotlings in this warband? Is their Insignificant rule just keeping with their "all five snotlings count for about a single unit" theme?

Hero: They work pretty well as a tar pit, which is my intention. They can tie up a scary saurus or dwarfen slayer for a couple of turns... which is why i made them worth a half an experience point each, so my opponents don't dread getting bogged down by them so much. (previously the whole 5 models were worth only one point)

Making them immune to psychology might work, i didn't consider their ability to tie-up fear causing models. The rule could be called "too stupid to know better". They are immune to animosity just for the fact they are not goblins, which is useful enough as it is, and i don't want to make them too good for 10 points.

Any other suggestions?

First Post ...

Thank you very much for all the work everyone has done on this Night Goblin Warband. I'm using it in our current Mordheim Campaign and having a blast.

Some thing of note: Goblins are perfectly horrible in HTH. The Doom Diver Hired Sword is just perfect. The Squigs are great and so is the Squig Herder + Pet rule.

I have only changed a couple of rules for my warband that I think would add significantly to the orrigional.

I have made the squig prodder +1 St on the charge. Its a huge stick with a trident on the end. Mixed with the netter skill this is good but not OP. Netter and a 2 handed weapon could be deadly though.

Added the Night Goblin only skill : 0-1 Forager. Required the infiltrate skill. You add 1 or subtract 1 from any exploration dice. This is to represent the goblin warband getting into bits of the city that other groups have missed due to their smaller size.

Made the Fungus Farmer Skill, and the infiltrate skill 0-2

Hey look dub. Your warband is spreading!

Thanks for the feedback Thornz! (I know it's not my warband list...but I feel the need to thank you anyways since I want a good goblin army to scrap with! And dub is my scrappin' pal.)

I haven't gotten to actually play them yet, but personally I think the warband looks pretty good and balanced. To cut back a bit on the shootiness of the warband you could remove standard bows from the Heroes' equipment list as well, forcing them to learn a skill if they want to upgrade.

Too Big: Personally I think crossbows should be added to the list, and on top of that for logistic reasons the Snotling 'Elper should only be useable on blackpowder and move-or-fire weapons - how's he going to help his nightgoblin master steady a longbow?

I don't really see that the 8 ball-and-chain wielding goblins is going to be much of a problem, because on top of the cost of getting the ball and chain you've got to provide everyone with mad cap mushrooms for the battle, which means 200 gold per game (unless everyone has Fungus Farmer, which is yet another skill devoted this get-up). Add to that the obligatory injury roll, assuming the poor little guy didin't go OoA during the fight, and at that point is it really still worth it?

EDIT: forgot that I have a little feedback in terms of editing and proofreading, should I email them to you?

DOUBLE EDIT: Styro, I didn't know you'd written a Squig Hopper! Or if I did I had forgotten . I like him, if I'd had the wherewithall I wouldn't have bothered to write one up myself.

Hmm thanks for the feedback guys, i have a newer version just about done, i'l post it in a few days time.

Thornz: Glad to see you enjoy the squig herder, he is wicked fun, but getting a squig to survive long enough is hard! I'm not sure how clear it is in the version you have, but the squig does not have to move the full 2d6 when moving, so you can keep it held back as a guard for the herder to keep it alive a bit longer.

I don't think you need to limit yourself to the amount of fungus farmers you can get. Remember that madcaps have their drawbacks and that's always one less netter or backstabber!

Myntokk: It looks balanced, but i found out from playtesting i overcompesated a bit and made it a little weak. Look out for the new version coming soon...

Yeah 8 ball and chains is going to be expensive and random, not a solid strategy.

Bows should have never been put in the hero list, copy paste error.

Lastly, "too big" is getting the axe! Needing a skill is drawback enough. I borrowed it from a halfling list anyway, and since no other goblins have the same drawback i don't want to weaken these Ld-6 WS-2 heroes anymore than i already have!

New version: Night Goblins Version 0.5 EDIT: SEE FIRST POST

Change Log:
Removed bows from hero list
Removed too small rule
Added fungus masters rule
Made reference to other hired swords that may be designed for greenskins, specifically Styro's excellent goblins found earlier in this thread.
Renamed the big boss to boss
Renamed the bosses to goonz
Added a giant riding squig, i hope it isn't overpowered
Removed the snotling 'elper, sadly he was no longer needed
Reworded netter to be more clear, and an incorrect reference to initiative tests
Changed da biggest boss into a starting skill
Removed sniper
Reduced mad caps to 15gc
Made poisoned daggers available to heroes
Reworded obedience rule for the herder
Renamed pet squig to trained squig. Pet sounded to friendly!
Gave herder the ability to trigger gassy squigs
Removed the odd habits rule from the shaman
Removed the addict rule from fanatics and made them 0-3
Made snotling experience round down so they are not so exploitable for experience points

Hopefully these changes will further make my night goblins unique and fun to play. Of special note, fungus masters allows you to ignore the permanent side effects of mad caps so long as you keep them in supply. This creates the very characterful possibility of all heroes hopelessly addicted to them, without ruining the warband's viability. I toyed with the idea of borrowing the Lizardmen poisoned weapon rule but it was redundant with the daggers, and i don't just want to borrow anymore rules.

Who thinks it's a good idea to delete the giant riding squig, replace it with a ride cave squig skill, and replace the troll with a great squig, with more monstrous stats?

As always, C&C and play testing experience is appreciated and needed!

Like I told you!

Giant Monster Squiggy is totally awesome!

I cant DL w/o paying for it