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 Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)

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Loki77515
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PostSubject: Starting an Orc and Goblins Warband   Fri 4 Jan 2008 - 17:22

Heya, I'm new here on these forums and to Mordheim in general as I was just wondering what would be a good way to start an Orc warband? I've already got some boyz, a Warboss, a shaman, some squigs, goblin fanatics, and black orcs (I'm going to model them as Big 'Unz) and thats about it so far. I'm trying to get the game going with another guy who knows the rules way better than I do, and I believe he has Skaven. Any tips for this blooming Warboss?
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Fri 4 Jan 2008 - 23:37

Best advice I could give would be to go to the specialist games webstie (www.specialist-games.com) and head to the Forums. From there, use the Search funtion (top right hand corner of the page) to search for "Orcs" in the "Mordheim Discussion" Forum. From my limited success with my greenskin army, here's my personal advice;

Avoid Squigs until you need them to feed your troll
Get your Troll ASAP.
Your gobbos are great with bows and suck in combat; give 'em bows.
Your Orcs are great in combat and are medeocre with bows; get 'em up close!
Your Shaman can be the pivotal point of your warband, use him wisely!
Fanatics are nerfed in Mordheim; they are incredibly expensive and die far too easily. I wouldn't bother with them.

Best of luck against the ratmen!
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 5:12

Welcome to the forum Loki! Glad to have you with us.

I read Brahm Tazoul's advice and - although I think there are good ideas - I must admit that I would do it slilghtly differently! Wink No offence my dear Brahm, I guess there are as many ways of playing orcs as there are players Smile

Orcs and Gobs are (along with With Hunters) the only warband which I seem capable of doing real damage with. In fact, my greenskins are somewhat a terror on the battlefield and even if the lose, they usually don't do so by far.

Ok, here's what I would do (and what I did with my own greenskins in fact):

1) Take Squigs! Cheap, usually move around 7-10", Strengh 4 is good vs. Skaven (no armour, T=3...)
2) Gobs: Use em! A lot! Give them 1 or 2 "Prodders" to have better control over your squigs. And bows if you have money although I dont think this is compulsory.

Squigs and Gobs only count 1/2 for rout test: a tremendous advantage over skaven!

3) Orcs: This is Mordheim and not Warhammer. Here we are in close quarters combat. GIVE THEM BOWS and TWO SINGLE HAND WEAPONS (more attacks).

Why? The orcs/big'uns are without doubt your CC spearhead. And the skaven player knows it. So he will use his high mobility to outmanoeuvre you till he can make a focused hard blow at an exposed spot of your warband.

Don't give him that pleasure! If you have 5 orcs armed with bows (including Boss and Chaman) you won't have to wait to get into close combat. If you do, great, you have 2 attacks (2 weapons) and a good toughness. If you don't, you can at least SHOOT at those bastards!

I won a game against Reiklanders once just because I had 7 bows. The humies were so afraid of my big fat orcs that they stayed back and tried to shoot me down. Well, I responded in kind Smile And when the range is no issue it's the toughness 4 that tips the ballance.

I have noticed that orcs are excellent polyvalent warriors (against all odds). Make them fight AND shoot.

4) Fanatics: I agree 100% with Brahm here. Don't use them.

I hope that helps!
Good luck Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 6:05

I agree with Tom!

Orcs with bows are a real menace. I was the owner of the poor Reiklander warband Tom talked about... they were slaughtered by a volley of orcish arrows. Even my captain was put OOA that day...

...so take bows!
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 7:44

Darn, I just finished painting my Fanatics too. Oh well, I can still use them in Fantasy games.

Thanks for the adivce, guys. I was over in the Mordheimer Skaven section thingy http://www.mordheimer.com/warbands/official/skaven.htm and noticed that they do indeed have quite the nasty shooty and movey capabilities. Giving all my boyz bows would be a great idea for detering skaven from spending too much time in getting around me.


Last edited by on Mon 21 Jan 2008 - 17:24; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 10:29

I thought I'd throw in my two bits here on Orcs.

unfortunately, I can't say I've spent a lot of real strategic time with Orcs, cause whenever we play with them, we can't stop laughing. So take these comments with a grain of salt.

They can be a very entertaining group to play with. My personal opinion is to never use fanatics, they just aren't worth it. but they are hilarious to try to move around the board. Animosity, although detrimental to your warband, is also the funniest rule in the game. I'd love to see Warbosses battle report of a orc warband and their animosity checks.

Anyway, back to tactics: Squigs are the freaking bomb for the price. And you never have a failed charge =). (also funny when one squig never moves more than 4 inches =])

Definitely my favorite party warband. Good times with the orcs.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 10:39

Yorik wrote:
And if the rat ogre is taken ooa it's got a 1 in 3 chance that your 200+ gc go down the drain. ouch.

Very true. This is the only reason that I don't get him early in the game. I want to make sure I have enough guys to protect him if he goes down.

But as I made my most recent warband list, I though about it heavily. It is quite teh killing machine though... s5 t5 3 wounds and 3 attacks. It's safe to say he will kill at least one person a turn. =) and he's only 210 gold.

On the other hand, skaven do very well with numbers, and for the same price, you can get 14 Giant rats... 14 ws2 attacks... out of 14 dice, you're sure to roll 4+ a couple times. That is my personal favorite tactic =). and then as the G rats die off, I replace them with actual rats.

And yes, max out on heros =)
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 10:50

IMO, giant rats aren't that good because they don't get XP. Verminkin, on the other hand, can become very good over the time (thanks to XP) + they can carry slings, which is quite useful.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 11:08

JohnYoung wrote:
IMO, giant rats aren't that good because they don't get XP. Verminkin, on the other hand, can become very good over the time (thanks to XP) + they can carry slings, which is quite useful.

Ah... it's all about tactics my friend. (I will also mention.... the rat oger doesnt' get XP either)

Take this tactic for example:

Let's say I have 5 heros and 15 rats

I "surround" each of my heros with 3 rats. And if that hero is goign to charge someone, the rats charge with him. The idea here is that, each enemy that you are attacking is being attacked by 4 rats (1 hero and 3 animals (no xp))

This does two things. First, if your hero gets knocked down or stunned, he can't be taken out of action because they have to attack the other Giant rats first. Second, your night runners and eshin socerrer have the same Initiative as your rats, so you can choose who attacks first. Your rats attack first, and have a 50% chance of wounding. which will probably end up in a knocked down or stunned enemy, then you're hero can attack the downed model, and get teh XP for the kill.

(I am not totally certain about the "you choose who attacks first on your own team" let me know if you know if this is correct or not)

Power in numbers,
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 13:11

Yeah, squigs seem like a really good idea. Always giving prodders instead of spears to goblins also seems like a good idea (WS 2 while they have BS 3? Damn. Sign me up for cheap disposable archers).

I have a couple rules quesitons, though. Can a model that is using a bow also use a shield and a hand weapon, and can a model with a sword in each hand use a shield? And do squigs get the -1 penalty for not using weapons while in melee?
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 14:52

I do understand your strategy, but the problem is, over the course of a long campaign, the rat will become crappier and end up being one shoted by the opponent's hencmens. Therefor, using fewer verminkin ( in llarge groups so they gain XP each game even if you lose some) is a better option. They can perfectly fulfill the same roll.

By the way, giant rats have an initiative of 4, as do the verminkin, which is not the same than the assassin's who has an initiative of 5. Same goes for the black skavens. So you're XP generating strategy wont work with giant rats, but it will eventualy works with verminkin, since they can gain initiative in a campaign Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 15:06

1) Yes. Your models can carry many 'sets' of weapon and use them as they wish. Well at least I never read a rule forbidding it. It may have been nerfed in the annual/empire in flame/lustria.

2) [see above] A model can carry 2 weapon and a shield. You'll get to choose what it will use before you engage in close combat. Note that you cannot switch weapon between to combat phase (except for the pistol users).

3) I might be wrong, but beast like squigs, rat-ogres, giant-rats etc, don't get the penality for not using a melee weapon, since they fight with their teeth, claw, etc. This rule is meant to represent a human fighting barehanded IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 15:12

Disagree with me Tom?! Ye DARE!?!

(He's probably right; I've only played a few games with my Orcs...I'm very good with them in Fantasy, however I typically use Undead of varying sorts in Mordheim. I've gotta give him hell just on principle...)

Twisted Evil ~snicker~ Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 15:17

JohnYoung wrote:
I do understand your strategy, but the problem is, over the course of a long campaign, the rat will become crappier and end up being one shoted by the opponent's hencmens. Therefor, using fewer verminkin ( in llarge groups so they gain XP each game even if you lose some) is a better option. They can perfectly fulfill the same roll.

Right, of course, which is why It's only for the beginning of the game, and I said:
Ashton wrote:
...and then as the G rats die off, I replace them with actual rats.
That way you keep ur numbers high. It is true that if you start with GR instead of vermikin, your vermikin won't be as awesome later in the game.


JohnYoung wrote:
By the way, giant rats have an initiative of 4, as do the verminkin, which is not the same than the assassin's who has an initiative of 5. Same goes for the black skavens. So you're XP generating strategy wont work with giant rats, but it will eventualy works with verminkin, since they can gain initiative in a campaign Wink

Correct, that free kill tactic won't work for AA or BS, and why I said:
Ashton wrote:
your night runners and eshin socerrer have the same Initiative as your rats, so you can choose who attacks first.

But it keep ur stunned and knocked down guys alive, which is awesome. (and you can crawl away from the battle.

I still will always start with max GR, and trade them out. They are just sooo worth it.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sat 5 Jan 2008 - 17:06

Awesome, I can give my Goblin archers a 6+ save with a shield now (at least its something) if I want. I have yet another question, if you don't mind:

The Troll is subject to stupidity. Do I always have to make a stupidity check on his Ld 4 or can I use the Ld of one of my heros? They are expenisve as hell, and would probably not be worth taking if I have to rely on a 4 to do anything with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 4:00

You can use your Boss's Ld when he is within 6" of the troll.

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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 10:19

*Whew*

I was hoping for that. Makes the Troll sound a lot more useful, thanks for the reply.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 11:05

Loki77515 wrote:
*Whew*

I was hoping for that. Makes the Troll sound a lot more useful, thanks for the reply.

I must note that I LOVE the troll. He basically has a 4+ armor save (regeneration), and he kicks ass. Stupidity kind of makes up for that awesomeness =/
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 12:03

Yeah, I just read the profile for Trolls and Vomit attack rules. An automatic STR 5 with no armor saves? Wow. Troll are where its at.

Gots another couple of questions: Do you guys think its a good idea to spend all your starting money (for me it would be 500 crowns) on the first mission? Or should I only spend some and hire more guys later (I know you get money after each successful mission but maybe saving early would be a good idea? I don't know). Also, can I only get the kind of equipment that is on my starting selection (ie: Orcs can start with either a crossbow or a bow, but would I be able to equip them with a Long bow if I found one later)?
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 12:25

Spend as much of it as you can for the first mission; your chances for survival increase with each warband member you have. I have never seen someone save any substantial amount of their starting cash for something later on. If the decision is between a goblin now, or a possible Orc after the first mission, then I'd consider holding off for the Orc, but otherwise spend it whiles ya gotzit!

Cheers.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 12:32

You may only use weapons which are listed for your warband.
If you want one of your heros to use another weapon than these you can give him a skill which allows to use other weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 13:41

Boy-howdy this one helpful forum, I'm glad I joined. Very Happy

Another question if you will: Can I ever have mounted heros/henchmen? Like can I ever put my Orc Boss on a piggy and have him ride into battle?
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 14:12

In the original rules, only humans are able to ride.
But if I remember right, in Empire in Flames you also find rules for other race's mounts.
You can download Empire in Flames at specialist-games.com

Always glad to help Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 6 Jan 2008 - 19:11

@Loki:

Remember that you need to have the "Ride" skill for your warrior to mount a boar/wolf!

Skills can only be gained if you roll the adequate result on an advance roll (i.e. the dice tell you to "pick a new skill"). That makes the distribution of new skills in your warband somewhat random.

So you can "mount your Boss on a piggy" ONLY if he is lucky enough to roll a "pick a new skill" result and you actually give him the ride skill.

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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 7 Jan 2008 - 23:32

Yeah, about riding: Is riding skill bound to academic?
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