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 Ghouls lack of weapons.

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Mortarion



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PostSubject: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 17 Oct 2011 - 5:39

So I'm just getting back into Mordheim and I'm wondering if this would work as a bit of a work around to the ghouls lack of equipment. Here goes.

IF I manage to get a Ghoul promoted via The Lads got Talent then roll a skill on the table for him could I take Weapons Training to allow him to use weapons since it says in the desciption "any hand-to-hand combat weapon he comes across, not just those in his equipment options"

Just a thought. That way I could have a ghoul running about with a sword and an axe or something for the extra attack and a parry save Very Happy
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Dribble Joy
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 17 Oct 2011 - 5:56

Doable and as far as I am aware, legal.

That said, I'd probably take a different skill than Weapon Training since they start with two base attacks. Resilient or Sprint would be better.
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StyrofoamKing
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 17 Oct 2011 - 9:40

In a FAQ, I think they declared it illegal. However, it is a common house rule, so check with your group- if they allow it, it's fair game. Our group does it, but I've also had my butt handed to be enough by A5 ghouls that I know how broken it can be.

Remember, Weapon Trainings lets them use Hand to Hand weapons... not missiles or armor!
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Mephysto
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 17 Oct 2011 - 10:21

'Tis the truth the King speaketh - the exact wording, for those interested:

Mordheim FAQ, p. 4 wrote:
Q: Under the Henchmen listing for Ghouls, it says that they can never carry equipment. However, if your Ghoul gets the ‘That Lad’s Got Talent’ advancement and you make him a Ghoul Hero, he can get Combat Skills for one of his choices. If he gets the chance to learn a new skill, can you give him Weapons Training to allow him to use weapons or is the listing about Ghoul Henchmen never using weapons final?

A: The letter of the rule is that Ghouls can have NO equipment. However, so many people enjoy equipping their Ghouls that I (Tuomas) rarely point this out. I hate seeing all of those Ghoul conversions going to waste!
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 17 Oct 2011 - 10:33

I'm not sure this is a rule that needs a work around. Ghouls are plenty deadly even with weapons, and bones aside, it doesn't really fit the flavor for then to be armed. As many have said the dice gods favor unoptimized fluffy warbands anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 17 Oct 2011 - 14:48

We never had anyone try that. But we do allow them to use a lucky charm and a rabbit's foot - we figure the vamp buys them and ties them around its neck.

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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Tue 18 Oct 2011 - 2:07

In my group we allow it fully, but we are also pretty strict on WYSIWYG too. This tends to mean that the ass-hat power-gamers – who almost never paint their minis, let alone *convert* anything – pretty much never take advantage of the rule; besides, ass-hat power-gamers wouldn't be playing a third-tier warband like undead anyway.

We also allow them equipment, but strictly enforce the WYSIWYG on the ghoul whereas we are a little more relaxed on it for normal stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Tue 18 Oct 2011 - 2:35

i recommend the coreheim fix saying its legal but ghouls suffer -1 A on profile if they take it

ghoul with waepons training + flail is insane
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Mortarion



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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Tue 18 Oct 2011 - 5:37

I can see how it would end up a little on the broken side...though the way my luck is going with rolling for advancement none of them are ever going to get promoted Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 24 Oct 2011 - 9:37

I would play it like Shotguncoffee said. It does make sense fluffyness wise. And I saw a cool ghoul once with a greatsword. Modeled as an insane warrior.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 24 Oct 2011 - 11:40

If the model you're talking about was wearing a black robe and was made fon the flaggelant sprue, that was actually a dreg.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Mon 24 Oct 2011 - 15:27

Nah it was just model I saw once (can't remember where) I think it was just used in a VC army.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Tue 25 Oct 2011 - 23:24

The thing is though, they are still a tier 3 warband. It takes a bit more than just weapon-toting ghouls to bring them up to tier 1.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Wed 26 Oct 2011 - 5:27

I'm not sure how you rank warbands, but I think it varies from group to group. Our gunners rarely struggle to win with Vamps.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Wed 26 Oct 2011 - 5:47

Why exactly are they considered so poorly of?

M9 wolves, top level leader, magic caster, cheap henchmen (zombies), dangerous henchmen (ghouls).

OK, no shooting options really, but I'm presumably missing something else.

Speed? Why not send out the wolves (which can walk faster than most people run) first to tie up the warband while the rest follows up?
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Wed 26 Oct 2011 - 7:42

they are a slower warband with no shooting (or at least not much to speak of). Add to this that they have a hard time getting that 6th hero as only one henchmen group can gain exp. Also there other two henchmen groups that don't gain exp will be left behind in latter games and be weak, too weak actually to be of much use.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Wed 26 Oct 2011 - 10:18

"Add to this that they have a hard time getting that 6th hero as only one henchmen group can gain exp."

I just load 'em up with ghouls and have the 6th hero as soon as any other warband I run.

They have two main models (vampire and necromancer), three weak heroes (three dregs compared to two youngbloods in most bands), and most of their henchmen cannot earn experience and none can carry kit. As a result, they tend to be powerful early on, but as other warbands make money and survive games, the undead tend to fall behind since (unless, like me, you ignore everything else and only recruit ghouls) because their henchmen aren't getting any better and they aren't able to spread nice kit as widely.
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PostSubject: Re: Ghouls lack of weapons.   Today at 21:38

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Ghouls lack of weapons.
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