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PostSubject: Weapons Tweaks   Wed 4 Jan 2012 - 4:57

H2H Weapons:

Dagger: No free daggers, remove AS modifiers, give -1 S penalty insread

Club: remove concussion OR cost 10 gc

Sword: Add: +1 on all Critical wounds rolls

Halberd: Strike first like apear OR additional -1 AS

Spear: Cannot cause critical wounds if combined with Shield

Lance: +3 S when charging

Great Weapon: additional -1 AS OR +1 to all critical wounds

Missile weapons:

Long Bow: +1 S when shooting more than 16"

Sling: Cost: 5gc, cannot be poisoned, range 16", REMOVE fire twice, ADD can stun undead with no pain rule

Throwing Stars: Range 6", Strenth 2, multiple shots x2 (with -1 BS) may Run & Fire, cost 10gc


Bucker: Also grants a 6+ AS
Shield: 5+ save
Light Armour: price
Heavy Armour price
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Tweaks   Wed 4 Jan 2012 - 11:13

Some things make sense e.g. making sling single shot. Others seem questionable e.g. why are swords particularly lethal and spears especially ineffectual? A few are counter-intuitive e.g. making longbows harder hitting at long range. Given this, care to explain the rationale behind all these suggested changes?
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Tweaks   Wed 4 Jan 2012 - 12:07

Personally, I'm not sure why you're making most of the changes. In general, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There's only a few reasons WHY you would change a weapon:

1. Nerfing a weapon that's too strong. Good example: Clubs are way strong. Bad example: nerfing spears, which are already weak and unpopular.

2. Boosting a weapon that's too weak / too unpopular. Good example: Adding +1 AS to bucklers. Bad example: adding bonuses to long bows and great weapons, which are already popular and strong.

3. Better fit the fluff or real life. Good Example: Adding strike first to halberd- it's a spear first, and an axe second. Bad Example: Critical hit with swords. Single handed Swords are fast, defensive weapons. Why not some version of parry, or an initiative boost? Why does a sword add +1 crit, and not an axe (which is more likely to cause damage)?
Another bad example: Why do slings ignore undead's "no pain"? What makes slings more effective than other weapons? To me, it'd do the OPPOSITE- it causes concussion like a hammer. Thus, most models would be MORE affected, but undead would be LESS than others.

4. To offer a more diverse range of tactics. Good example: throwing stars, allowed to run and fire. Bad example: Great weapon. You're adding a bonus to an already strong weapon, and making it similar to existing weapons (an axe, or your sword.) You'd be better off adding the "strikes last when charging" rule like WFB, or for adding special versions of the weapon, like double-handed blade, double-handed hammer, etc.

Question: does the halberd still grant +1 st? otherwise, you have a two-handed spear or axe, which is versatile, but still pretty sucky.
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PostSubject: Re: Weapons Tweaks   Fri 6 Jan 2012 - 7:34

Daggers I think are fine as they are. I haven't noticed anyone in my games using them any more or less than I would expect.

For clubs, I can see what you are trying to do, but I think either is too harsh. Personally, I think the weapon needs to be split up into its component members i.e.

Club/cudgel/baton/stick-with-nail/etc.: 3 gold, S=user, no special rules.

Hammer/Mace/etc.: 5 gold, S=user, Concussion.

Staff: 3 gold, two handed, Parry, Concussion.

I have only increased the price to 5 gold because in my circle axes are not unpopular because we have fixed armour so axes are taken to beat the armour. If I was going to be doing an overhaul then I would make axes something like Armour Piercing and +1 to injury vs unarmoured and Hammers/Maces Armour Piercing and Concussion. Both are good at punching through armour, but the mace is better than the axe vs the armoured target and the axe is better than the mace vs the unarmoured target.

I think spears and halberds are over priced. I would drop spears to 5 gold and halberds to 8.
Spear: S=user, +1I, Strikes First if two-handed, only use with shield/bucker
Halberd: S=user+1. The halberd is still occasionally used in my circle so I would probably leave it at that until I saw what happened.
Potential for spear and halberd if they are still not popular: Reach: if you are in base contact with a friendly model you may make 1 off-hand attack against any one opponent the friendly model is in combat with. I think I have seen the same thing in my circle as Styrofoam has seen in his - the spear doesn't need nerfing. With the nerfing of Strikes First it is now unpopular enough as it is.

The sling is fine how it is. It is cheap to make and cheap to shoot reflected in its low purchase price and a greater willingness to fire more often at risky targets i.e. shooting twice at -1 or aiming fully vs a bow's expensive arrows allowing only aiming fully.

If you are wanting to make slings more accurate then you should increase their range to 24 and make it so that Weapons Expert and then Sling Mastery rather than just Weapons Expert before you can use a sling (they are quite tricky to use).

Slings bullets are brute-force crushing smashing weapons compared to arrows so I can understand the rationale behind making them more effective against undead. Unlike arrows and bolts, sling bullets were quite capable of crushing and shattering bone so I can see them causing an undead to stumble for long enough to be effectively stunned.

If you are going to over-price them and make their ammo more expensive to boot, then I think you should make Quickshot be usable with slings too.

I like the run-and-shoot on the throwing stars. I would make them S-1 though rather than locked at S2. How would you make them interact with knife-fighter? 3 shots normal, 4 shots -1?

In my circle we use those armour tweaks already and to great effect Smile (well, +1 to AS in melee for both shield and buckler, but pretty close).
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