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 New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight

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Dorkman
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PostSubject: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 11:57

Well the local crew has just started up a Mordheim campaign, and because I like hoity toity, Marienburgers it is!

My warband thus far.

Capt Micheal Angelo
Brace of Duelling Pistols, Sword, Luck Charm

Champion Duke Von Dukem
Duelling Pistol, Sword, Lucky charm

Champion Victor Von Fisticuffs
Deulling Pistol, Sword, Lucky Charm

Young Blood Stunty Stan
2 Maces, +1T

Youngblood Jules
2 Maces

McGavin's Shooters
2 Marksmen
2 Xbows

Angelo's Arrows
2 Marksmen
2 Bows

The Bright Eyed Bucklers
2 Swordsmen
2 Swords

Ted
Marksmen
Blunderbuss

That's it! I am one game in, so Stunty Stan has a increase in toughness, so he is basically a dwarf. After a pretty successful first game I am sitting on 80gc and unsure as to what to do. Part of me wants to get an Elf Ranger to leverage his ability to change my Exploration rolls but unsure.

Also, as a quasi shooting type warband, how should I be building this warband up sklill wise? This is my first crack at Mordheim and there are a couple players that are taking this pretty serious with their builds (We already have a skaven player sitting at a warband rating of 180 or something ridiculous). What skill combinations would work great together?

At this moment I am thinking about using my Captain's first skill roll to grab an Academic skill to help with the Exploration rolls, then maybe Eagle Eye and Trick shot to be a threat with his pistols. But I have no idea where else to go. Anyone have any good strategies or long term goals to keep in mind when running the Marienburgers?

Thanks in advance!
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 12:11

the 'burgs are a pretty solid warband. Not because of their money, but rather thair +1 to rarity rolls that they get. makes the late game a little bit easier.

seems their focus would be more on the shooting, due to the lack of strength skills. which means fighting hard-hitting bands like skaven will be a bit tricky.

a sick little combo I found for them (or most any humans really) was taking 2 sets of dueling pistols, pistolier, eagle eyes and Trick shot. good for a close-range shooter. 2 shots per turn @ 16", +1 to hit, no cover penalty. Since you have 2 sets of pistols, you can fire 2 shots Every round. Pretty damn good for defending an elevated position.


Otherwise, if you wanna beat rats down... just get lots of shotguns. those things make rat players cringe in terror, and is your only defence against getting swarmed. I ran 3 at one point, and I found that the other players were getting frustrated with me. they refused to change their tactics and I was dropping their henchmen faster than 10th grade math. The skaven players had the hardest time against this. Orcs didnt seem to care much, (until I started buying the hero Lads superior gun powder.... +1 str for the gun)


Elven ranger is always a nice plus. more shooting, get that exploration bonus which almost ensures that youll always get at least a SMALL bonus in the explore phase. Combine this with Tarot Cards and youll be getting sets of 4 and 5 Very easily and very frequently.



Last edited by Zekk on Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 7:14; edited 1 time in total
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SerialMoM
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 12:48

I am missing the cannon fooder. Yeah the youngbloods are cheap but they are heroes.

A wardog is a fine option. A crossbow for the leader also ( BS 4)

If you really need a hired sword, you should hire a sword. You should improve your close combat department. An ogre would be really nice, because he can soak up some damge and deal out huge amount of damage.

The cannon fodder variant would be to hire two warriors with mace dagger or mace shields ( if you use improved shield rules)

Have fun!

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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 13:02

Should I consider buying more common items (clubs and swords) so that the shooters can help protect themselves? Or should I focus on buying more dudes (Swordsmen and the like).

I am also thinking about the Elf ragner now rather then later so that I have more time to take advantage of his exploration effect sooner, thus leverage him earlier for potential money.
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 15:37

The marksman normally do not need close combat weapons, but this depends on your playing style.

I would give them clubs, if i want to max it out, swords only if the mini have them and i play in a not maxed out environment.

The elf costs you 20 gc per battle. Normally his upside effect does not earn you enough extra money to pay it costs.

Don't understand me wrong, he is a good hired sword, but with all your expensively equiped units you could use some cheap units.

Nevertheless you have several options and every option will improve your warband.
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 18:03

a good idea for success with a Human warband of any kind is pairing a henchmen with each of your heroes. This means that no one will need to test for "all alone", and also helps if you get charged, as the henchman can take the charge and your hero can counter charge that enemy on the next turn. A lowly warrior with a club and free dagger only costs 28 gold, and this is a bargain! This way your heroes are not as vulnerable in close combat. If you're going for Marienburgers, I think this fits in perfectly, as the each of the higher-ups would have some kind of man-servant to do his dirty work!
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 22:03

Quote :
a sick little combo I found for them (or most any humans really) was taking 2 sets of dueling pistols, pistolier, eagle eyes and Trick shot. good for a close-range shooter. 2 shots per turn @ 16", +1 to hit, no cover penalty. Since you have 2 sets of pistols, you can fire 2 shots Every round. Pretty damn good for defending an elevated position.

I'm not seeing how this is possible unless you are using a house rule. One model may not carry 2 braces of pistols. Even if you could, pistolier does not allow you to re-load 2 pistols per turn. A crossbow and quickshot would be simpler and cheaper.

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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Thu 7 Jun 2012 - 22:06

Quote :
a sick little combo I found for them (or most any humans really) was taking 2 sets of dueling pistols, pistolier, eagle eyes and Trick shot. good for a close-range shooter. 2 shots per turn @ 16", +1 to hit, no cover penalty. Since you have 2 sets of pistols, you can fire 2 shots Every round. Pretty damn good for defending an elevated position.

I'm not seeing how this is possible unless you are using a house rule. One model may not carry 2 braces of pistols. Even if you could, pistolier does not allow you to re-load 2 pistols per turn. A crossbow and quickshot would be simpler and cheaper.

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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 4:00

@ Zekk:

Zekk wrote:
the jews are a pretty solid warband. Not because of their money, but....

[EDIT]: Zekk, please be reminded that as by the forum rules, no demeaning remarks towards any minority, sex or religion will be tolerated. Calling the Marienburger Warband "the jews" can be considered offensive because it uses a stereotype as a joke, which is connoted with antisemitic rethoric. Please refer to the warbands by their name and try to avoid euphemisms that may be misinterpreted. Thank you for understanding.
-Admin Tom

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Zekk
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 7:15

edited.
no hate here, just referring to their ability to make money! its how the local club refers to em, slang is hard to shake sometimes.

[EDIT] That's cool. Thanks for your understanding. AT
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 7:23


First off, theres no rule saying you cant have 2 braces of pistols. the formal errata clarifies a brace of pistols as 1 missile weapon. So you could carry two braces of pistols as each model is allowed to have 2 missile weapons.

pistolier allows you to fire a pistol in the same turn its reloaded. so turn break down is like this:

Turn 1: Fire brace 1 - pistol A and pistol B
Turn 2: Fire brace 2 (C&D) reload pistol A
Turn 3: reload pistol B, Fire Brace 1 (A&B) while reloading pistol C
Turn 4: reload pistol D, Fire Brace 2 (C&D) while reloading pistol A
Turn 5.. etc etc etc

The rules also state that you may reload a pistol NO MATTER WHAT other conditions. be it running, combat, etc. Your pistol always gets reloaded in a turn. It doesnt say how many pistols you can reload. Through interpretting errata and a house rule of our own, we ruled that you can only reload 1 pistol in a brace per turn. However, it doesnt say anything about reloading two pistols in two separate braces. Or two pistols that arent in a brace together.




Von Kurst wrote:

I'm not seeing how this is possible unless you are using a house rule. One model may not carry 2 braces of pistols. Even if you could, pistolier does not allow you to re-load 2 pistols per turn. A crossbow and quickshot would be simpler and cheaper.

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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 16:57

Sorry about the double post above.

Quote :
First off, theres no rule saying you cant have 2 braces of pistols. the formal errata clarifies a brace of pistols as 1 missile weapon. So you could carry two braces of pistols as each model is allowed to have 2 missile weapons.

Actually there is a rule.

Mordheim Rulebook, p. 65 wrote:

Each warrior you recruit can be armed with two close combat weapons, up to two different missile weapons and any armour chosen from the appropriate list.

So you can't carry four pistols under standard rules, although you can carry a brace of pistols and a brace of dueling pistols and work your trick.

As for the rules not stating how many pistols may be reloaded during a turn, this seems more a case of ignoring what is said in favor of emphasizing what is specifically not said.

Mordheim Rulebook, p. 47 wrote:

Prepare shot. A pistol takes a whole turn to reload, so you may only fire one every other turn. If you have a brace of pistols (ie, two) you may fire every turn.

The rule specifically says you may reload one pistol per turn even if you have 2, that doesn't seem vague. Nor does it seem all that hard to extapolate to how many you may reload if you have 4, since the rules as written do state one per turn.
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 17:12

Ah, I yield on the 2 braces of pistols part. Two DIFFERENT missile weapons, it states. didnt see that before. thanks for the clarification.

as for Prepare Shot. It doesnt specifically state that you can only reload one pistol per turn. infact no where does it say how many you can reload in a turn. All it talks about is how often you can fire them.

This is a grey area of Mordheim, where the rules given to us arent clear. Thus why I said through interpreting errata and a *house rule* of ours, we ve ruled that you can reload 1 pistol per brace, per turn.

However, if we went with your version, of 1 pistol regardless of situation....
the turn out would be more along the lines of.



Turn 1: Fire A & B
Turn 2: reload A, Fire C & D
Turn 3: Reload B, Fire A & B
Turn 4: Fire 1 pistol , reload 1 pistol
Turn 5: Fire 1 pistol, reload 1 pistol
etc etc

Still quite effective! seeing as most games only go to 6 to 8 turns, and you wont be in pistol range till turn 3 (average)
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 18:18

Read the Ostlander rules on double-barrel weapons, it states that you only get to load one blackpowder barrel per turn. That is the clearest way to clear up a so-called 'grey' area as it is official warband, and limits reloading to one barrel per turn.

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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 18:21

brokenv wrote:
Read the Ostlander rules on double-barrel weapons, it states that you only get to load one blackpowder barrel per turn. That is the clearest way to clear up a so-called 'grey' area as it is official warband, and limits reloading to one barrel per turn.


However, each barrel takes a full turn to reload (although if you reload only one barrel you can fire it like a normal pistol/rifle).


No it doesnt...
it says you can only reload 1 barrel per turn. its a special rule for a special item. doesnt apply here.

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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Fri 8 Jun 2012 - 18:28

Dorkman wrote:
At this moment I am thinking about using my Captain's first skill roll to grab an Academic skill to help with the Exploration rolls, then maybe Eagle Eye and Trick shot to be a threat with his pistols. But I have no idea where else to go. Anyone have any good strategies or long term goals to keep in mind when running the Marienburgers?
That is a good plan and if you are not playing with the official Mordheim Annual then that is probably the way to go for long-term growth, but if you *are* then either of the skills Hunch or Tactician would be tremendously helpful. In fact, I will often get both as soon as I have Weapons Expert for my leader (my Marienburger captain is armed with a hunting rifle). Hunch lets you set up a max of 3 models in buildings anywhere on the board and tactician lets you redeploy after your enemy has finished deploying. Both of these are very handy for limiting Skaven infiltration because they cannot infiltrate near your Hunch-deployed troops.

I, too, use the close-range fire-support concept above, but I use a more skill-heavy variant of Brace of Crossbow Pistols, Weapons Expert, Pistoleer. No need to worry about reloading rules and if you are charged then you get to give them two pistol-shots to the face before combat starts. It means you can pump all his 6-7 level-ups into BS until maxed without gimping him too much in CC. If he gets a +1S upgrade then he can be given throwing knives. We have a house-rule that allows gromril throwing knives.

Oh, and give your youngblood's bows. Yes, they will not often get a chance to use them and yes they are not likely to hit, but it is not *no* chance. And some chance of xp is a lot better than no chance of xp. Also, the chance of being able to get lucky and shoot an enemy hero full of holes from youngbloods is glorious when it happens. Youngbloods don't need much xp to level and it only takes two levels (if they are both BS) before they change from useless pot-shotters to something more formidable.

Edit - the above goes for your leader and champions too. Moar shots is moar xp. It will only cost 50 gold to get a bow on all your main heroes and it is an investment that will earn them xp. Consider upgrading to crossbows if you come across them as loot. Even if you don't like it, sometimes the best thing to do is just turtle for a little bit and then diving charge the survivors (you do all have Acrobat, right? Razz).

Although not a house-rule as such we have a tradition in my group that youngblood models can be replaced with more adult models once the YB in question has 8-12 xp and still be covered by WYSIWYG. This makes it a bit easier to model the mid-game/end-game YBs as it is more affordable to have a model for the one with the hunting rifle, the one with the dual dueling pistol braces, etc depending on how you want them armed.

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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 8:13

You can start a campaign with lucky charms?
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 16:12

No you can't but Dorkman says he has played one game so we can assume he bought the lucky charms after the game before he asked his question. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: New marienburg warband and a lack of foresight   Sat 9 Jun 2012 - 17:27

Ah, sorry, should have read the first post fully Razz.
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