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 Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)

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Braddoc
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 27 Sep 2015 - 21:08

Hey there, so it seems that's the thread to post Warbands? All Right..

Reikand Merc
"La Compagnie de Carroburg"
(The Carroburg Compagny)
Merc Captain, "Le Boss", sword, dueling pistol, dagger
Champ, "Otto", Two-handed sword, dagger
Champ, "Han", sword, dagger
Youngblood, "Le Kid", sword, dagger
Youngblood, "Sergio", spear, buckler, dagger
1x Marksman, "Le Tiléan", crossbow, dagger
3x Marksman, "Braconniers de la Darkwald" (Darklwald Poachers), bows, dagger
2x Swordsmen "Lames D'Ulric" (Blades of Ulric), sword, buckler, dagger

Skaven Warband
"Les Chasseurs des Ombres"
(The Night Hunters)
Assassin Adept, "Le Big Cheese", Throwing knives, Sword, buckler, dagger
Sorcerer, "Cortex", Warlock pistol, sword, buckler, dagger.
Black Skaven, "Snitch", Fighting claws, dagger
Black Skaven, "Snatch", Fighting claws, dagger
Night Runner, "Pif", Spear, sling, Dagger
Night Runner, "Paf", Spear, sling, Dagger
3x Verminkin "Lames Rouillées" (The Rusted Blades"), sword, Sling, Dagger.

Lemme know what you think
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 5:22

Are you playing WYSIWYG?

I'm not a big fan of double handed weapons for starting warbands, as your hero will likely be out of action before he can strike or just plain miss.

The spear has the same concerns except that it is also less likely to wound.

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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 19:43

The spear is mostly there due to the Strike first rule, allowing my WS2 heroes to at least get to attack first in melee, whoever charged who.

The double handed weapon is mostly for looks and variety, as I only played Mordheim with one of my RPG players, so we're a bit more style over substance.

As for WYSIWYG...I plan on making it so for weapons (so yes, got to cut my some plasitcard stripe and glue them to belts for slings), gear, and held armour (shield, buckler) but not for armour/helmets, as to facilitate modeling.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 19:56

Reiklanders:
I would suggest getting a hammer/club/truncheon for Otto. If you can also get him a shield so much the better, but that could easily wait until after your first game. That way you can use the Two-Handed Sword to charge Knocked Down enemies, use the hammer and dagger at other times, or use the hammer and shield if you need to be a bit tankier. That being said, getting the shield early will only be worth it if you are using the +1AS in melee special rule.

I would also recommend dropping Le Tiléan and giving the crossbow to your leader, dropping the Braconniers and giving the bows to your champions, and getting as many more Swordsmen as you can (probably only 1 or 2). The swordsmen should, of course, be in groups of 1 to increase your chance of getting That Lad's Got Talent and also giving you more variety for expanding your groups in the future.

The reason for getting as many swordsmen as possible is a bit convoluted, but here it is.
1/ Heroes are your lifeblood so the sooner you get your max heroes the better.
2/ TLGT heroes are best made into snipers because:
2a/ TLGT heroes can only choose two skill tables and you only need Shooting and Speed to be the best sniper, but you need Combat, Strength, and Speed to be the best melee hero.
2b/ TLGT heroes are hard to replace and snipers are much less vulnerable to the fickle Dice Gods than melee heroes.
3/ This one is a bit counter-intuitive, but melee henchmen generally make the best TLGT snipers and ranged henchmen generally make the best TLGT melee heroes.

The three above points mean it is generally a good idea for mercenary warbands to get as many swordsmen until they get their TLGT hero and then you can get whatever henchmen make you happy.

Skaven:
Bucklers count as armour so Cortex will not be able to cast if he is equipped with a buckler. Well, not until he gets the Academic skill Warrior Wizard.
There is no reason not to give a sling to Le Grand Fromage and Cortex.
Spears are good for slingers to receive charges with, so feel free to keep them if you want. If you can, give them a club to use for when they charge though. Von Kurst is right about his concerns for the spear in the 'only one attack' respect.


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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 20:25

Braddoc wrote:
As for WYSIWYG...I plan on making it so for weapons ... , gear, and held armour (shield, buckler) but not for armour/helmets, as to facilitate modeling.
Your opinions on enforcing WYSIWYG match mine and are therefore correct Razz.

Of curiosity, will you be having models for your early campaign equipment and then different ones for when they have better gear or will you be keeping the same models the whole way through?
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 28 Sep 2015 - 21:20

Quote :
The spear is mostly there due to the Strike first rule, allowing my WS2 heroes to at least get to attack first in melee, whoever charged who.

Well, that kinda depends on who charges them, and or which rules you are playing by.

If you are playing from the original rulebook, ok. Otherwise if you use the most recent official rules, against charging dwarfs, saurus and orcs they will get to strike first. Against other I3 warriors they will roll off and against skaven and other I4 or better opponents they will get steamrolled.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Tue 29 Sep 2015 - 16:28

I'll go name-by-name as quoting will take too much place in the thread.

Von Kurst: I play with the 'basic' Mordheim rules, so spears has always strike first for the first turn...even with the 'updated' French rules book, it does states they only strike first on the first turn and can't combine the spear with another weapon- I never saw anything concerning an I test agaisnst same I models when a spear is involved; if both compatant got a spear, an I test is normal; if not, then the spearman got 'priority' to me.

Lord 0:
Skaven:
Damn, I missed that one on Cortex's buckler, thanks for the spotting. I suppose I'll drop the buckler for a couple of slings for Le Big Cheese and Cortex an I should have a Gold left.
(Side-note Cortex is the French name of Brain from the Pinky&The Brain duo of Animaniacs Fame.)

Reiklanders:
I never heard of the +1 Attack with a shield; it must be a non-offical rule perhaps? I usually fight off against Beastsmen, so having a shield for a 6+ is not worth it; I would better be off with a buckler for a chance of a parry. As for the Two-handed weapon, it is part 'Fluff' and part modelling.
Fluff comes from the Carroburg Greatswords; can't have a gang from Carroburg without one guy with a Two-handed sword!
Modelling comes from having an eye appealing Warband: To me, having a Champion running around with his kitchen knife and a large branch seems lackbuster to me; Middenheim, I can see it, but Reiklanders are a bit too civilised to me for thier champion using a club like those Ulrican bastards.

I can understand your tactics to get the heroes with ranged weapons and having only melee henchmen to start. To me, it feels to 'gamey', nothing wrong with that, but I would prefer to get the league started with modelling and thematic rather than competition; perhaps down the road, but just not now.

As for getting Hero #6 via TLGT and then developping my band, I learned not to but trust in dice, so I would rather have a 'balanced' starting warband with some logic in gear/members than having something more...'mathematic'.

Thanks for the input; I might sound like I critisizing, but it's far from that, I'm stilla newbie, so I might still be bright-eyed...
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Tue 29 Sep 2015 - 20:10

Sorry, I was unclear there -  +1 AS is short for +1 Armour Save. There is a house-rule that some groups use (my own included) that gives Sheilds and Bucklers an additional +1 to your armour save in melee. Shields will give you a 5+ save in melee and 6+ vs shooting and bucklers will give you a 6+ save in melee as well as the parry attempt, but nothing vs shooting.

This means a shield will give you a 4+ save in melee vs daggers so can be quite handy against henchmen that have only a club and a dagger for attacking. It stacks with armour normally, so you can get a pretty decent save and it encourages shield use over dual-wielding.

What Von Kurst is talking about is the updated way Strikes First works. In the new way if two models have Strikes First (e.g. one charging and the other with a spear) then instead of someone striking first you go by initiative and if initiative is tied then you dice off. The examples he mentions are assuming your youngbloods have the spear, your verminkin with the spear will do a bit better Razz.

I understand your reluctance to take a more 'go with what works' approach, but there is no real reason a modelling and thematic approach is mutually exclusive with taking things that work well. My group enforces WYSIWYG *and* is fairly competative so one of the sources of fun we have is finding good stories for why we are taking the particular group we are. In any case, you do what is fun for you Smile.

If you don't want to take a kitchen knife and a branch as a backup weapon for your Carroburg Greatsword, what about a Flanged Mace and a Sgian-dubh? Or something similar?

Also, since you *are* using WYSIWYG will you be having more than one model for heroes to reflect different equipment or will you be having just the one model each? It can make a difference for what equipment and weapons are best to start with.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Wed 14 Oct 2015 - 8:47

So this is were I post my quite noobish warband team. Alrighty then:

Hauptman Messers Knechten

Hauptman Messer: Captain, brace of duelling pistols, heavy armor, Sword, Axe, dagger
Champions Krieg & Schlaug (x2): Axe, Club, Helmet, dagger
Youngbloods Jung & Hein von Döbeln (x2): Sword & Buckler, dagger

Scharfschützen (Marksmen x4): Bow, axe+dagger

I also got 1 entire gold to spare cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 15 Feb 2016 - 7:57

Woodelves (mordheimer):

Wayfarer : (Bow),(Club,Dagger)
Spellwalker : (Bow),(Club,Dagger)
Wild Hunter : (Bow),(Club,Dagger),(Falcon = +1/-1 expl.phase)
Pathfinder : (Bow),(Club,Dagger)
Pathfinder : (Bow),(Club,Dagger)
Gladewarrior: (Bow),(Club,Dagger)
Gladewarrior: (Bow),(Club,Dagger)
Gladewarrior: (Bow),(Dagger,Dagger)
Gladewarrior: (Bow),(Dagger,Dagger)

Club = Thornblade.

PS: How do you format text so that all the ":" are right under each other?
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Fri 19 Feb 2016 - 4:26

I'm starting a campaign this weekend (wiiii), and since it will be a short one we are allowed to start with 550gc, three free advances for the leader and two free advances for other heroes. I'm probably going with dwarfs, even if with one less hero I'm loosing two free advances.

So, I usually start with a halfing scout, it doesn't really have impact in your economy and delivers a lot... but I'm considering hiring a tilean or a pit fighter also (not sure wich one). Do you think 20gc unkeep cost will be that negative considering it's a short campaign and I'm getting one extra shard every game?

I'm also thinking in playing as possessed, since they will probably benefit much more from the special starting conditions than dwarfs. Starting with two T5 A3 possessed, magister with two spells and sorcery, and two extra meatshields... sounds like a really competitive list.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Fri 19 Feb 2016 - 19:35

@Calimbandil--I hope the list worked out. Most do I've found.

@mitokun--If you have all your heroes, etc., it looks like a reasonable list. [I have never looked at that warband, so I have no idea. I've noticed that you folks who play wood elves never seem to be active on the forum at the same time...]

@bitxo--I would assume that either warband would be competitive, though the Possessed seem more so.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Tue 23 Feb 2016 - 2:52

Well a bit late but when I started gaming selected the Marauders of Chaos (Kurgan tribe) from Border Town Burning.
For the 500 gold crown's I bought:

1 Chieftain-95 dagger-0 dual barbed whip- 30 bonebow-10 all: 135
1 Seer as a Bloodfather (Mark of Akhar) - 45 dagger-0 hammer-3 bonebow-10 all 58
2 champion-90 two dagger-0 two hammer-6 two bonebow-20 all 116
1 condemned-55 all:55
9 warhounds of chaos all:135

which was 499 in the end.
I thought maybe one less dog and more equipment which can add 3 axe.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Tue 23 Feb 2016 - 5:03

Um... As a guy fielding 9 15gc Strength 4 models, I wouldn't complain about another warbands cheap henchmen... Just saying.

This list meant you were not going to get a 6th hero soon, but that hasn't hurt too much I expect.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Tue 23 Feb 2016 - 5:37

Yeah... Let's call it excessive caution. Very Happy
After a couple of fight I balanced the henchmans to 5 marauder and 5 dog +1 imperial assassin hired sword. So all goes well...
Expect I fell for the rumours about the OP status of the Dark elves.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 3 Apr 2016 - 8:03

Would appreciate folk casting a critical eye over my Averlanders list;

Heroes
------

Captain: Sword, Buckler, Free Dagger, Brace of Duelling Pistols - 125gc

Sergeant: Halberd, Free Dagger - 55gc

Bergjaeger 1: Free Dagger, Longbow - 50gc

Bergjaeger 2: Free Dagger, Longbow - 50gc

Youngblood: Hammer, Free Dagger - 18gc


Henchmen
--------

Mountainguard: Sword, Free Dagger - 40gc

Mountainguard: Sword, Free Dagger - 40gc

Mountainguard: Sword, Free Dagger - 40gc

Mountainguard: Sword, Free Dagger - 40gc

Mountainguard: Sword, Free Dagger - 40gc

--498gc

The plan is to use initial winnings to grab axes for the Bergjaegers, then work on getting everyone helmets and equipping all the Mountainguard with crossbows & shields, as well as recruiting a few Halflings. The buckler on the Captain was just to use up some spare gold.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 3 Apr 2016 - 9:05

I'm not a big fan of starting with a halberd or double handed weapon, though with all the house rules possible, its kind of hard to judge what the motivation might be for it.

But if you dropped the buckler and the halberd, you would have 20 gc for other things. My group is a big fan of swords for heroes. So I would recommend a sword for the Sergeant.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 3 Apr 2016 - 13:42

Sorry should have mentioned that; I'll be running the campaign and we'll be using multiple houserules(-2 offhand + skill, +1 save in CC shields, light + heavy armour 50% normal cost, parry is D6 + WS), plus I'm quite wedded to the halberd as it was a traditional weapon for Sergeants and I'm playing up the ex-military theme.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 3 Apr 2016 - 17:05

Yodhrin wrote:
Sorry should have mentioned that; I'll be running the campaign and we'll be using multiple houserules(-2 offhand + skill, +1 save in CC shields, light + heavy armour 50% normal cost, parry is D6 + WS), plus I'm quite wedded to the halberd as it was a traditional weapon for Sergeants and I'm playing up the ex-military theme.

It's usually statistically better to go for the additional attack (at whatever house rule penalty imposed) than any strength bonuses. Once you have gained an additional attack then it's worthwhile looking into fancier weapons.

Just on the dual wield house rule we also started out with the -2 offhand penalty but tweaked it so it's now at -1 to hit with no crits possible until you have the skill.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Tue 5 Apr 2016 - 8:43

Yodhrin wrote:
... I'm quite wedded to the halberd as it was a traditional weapon for Sergeants and I'm playing up the ex-military theme.
In my group we had a fellow using a halberd for a similar reason. We made a minor addition to the Strength skill Strongman for him. We made it so that in addition to eliminating Strikes Last for DHWs it would also grant +1S to Halberds. This made the Halberd/Strongman combo functionally identical to the DHW/Strongman combo. That being said, he was less of a power-gamer than the rest of us, so the playtesting is somewhat less stringent than other stuff I have posted. YMMV.

Didn't seem to cause any problems though. Heck, a halberd looks enough like a DH axe that some people didn't even notice the difference and just assumed it was a DHW with Strongman (because, really, who takes a double-handed weapon without Strongman? Razz).
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Wed 6 Apr 2016 - 4:02

Huh, well DHWs are Common anyway so I'll just give him the Halberd until he gets that skill then switch it out on his sheet, I doubt anyone will whinge.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 17 Apr 2016 - 17:22

G'day TBMHF, some mates and I are maybe gonna start a new MH campaign in future and I wanted to get in early and hammer out some WHs. I went for a more proactive, melee-focussed warband this time.

Only (possible) houserule might be us using the "shields = +1 additional AS in melee" rule we used last campaign, because we think it patches most weapons issues (axes, dual-wielding, and armour) all in one.

Anyway, here's my witch-hunting wolfpack:

Witch Hunter Captain - 108
Hammer, Sword, Crossbow Pistol

Witch Hunter 1 - 38
Hammer, Sword

Witch Hunter 2 - 38
Hammer, Sword

Witch Hunter 3 - 38
Hammer, Sword

Warrior Priest - 53
Hammer, Sword

Warhounds x5 - 75

Flagellants x2 - 110
Flailx2 (split in 2 henchmen groups for LGT)

Hired Sword: Elf Ranger - 40

TOTAL COST: 500

Points of questioning:

1) Is an elf ranger worth it? I've read some success stories, but I'm also wondering if a single archer (albeit BS5) will add sufficient covering fire to a warband that lacks any real shooting to back him up. Crossbow pistol is not a real ranged weapon. Would it be smarter to just get a Halfling or Tilean and screw the exploration bonus?

2) Crossbow pistol. It's damn expensive, but I wouldn't mind plying some of your brains with the rationale. My alternatives are pretty much a crossbow on the leader, or a pair of pistols somewhere, or I could ditch the hired sword and arm most heroes up with the alternatives. But I felt regular crossbows are underwhelming on WHs (unrealistic expectations from my Reiklander days?) and pistols might not add the extra melee punch I'd want. Similarly, I feel like giving my leader a crossbow would end in either keeping him back (wasting WS4) or not change at all (wasting BS4 and 25gc). A CBP lets me use that BS4 in melee, and still make full use of 2 hands worth of WS4.

Does it seem sound to take the CBP? Or should I stick to a regular crossbow and maybe take some when the heroes have a better BS to make use of the rule?

Thanks in advance, TBMHF
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Sun 17 Apr 2016 - 20:05

Welcome to the forum!

1) Is an elf ranger worth it?  
Not necessarily as an archer, although that is useful.  To me the Ranger is all about his Seeker skill.  Since the Witch Hunters can't use Tarot Cards, the Ranger fills a post game void in your quest for income.  Any hits he causes before that are cake.

Also since he is an elf, he is quite useful for finding those pesky hidden enemies trying to evade the righteous hand of Sigmar.

2) Crossbow pistol.
Actually I never take this item with WH.  I always go for the shooting Captain with crossbow.  The  Witch Hunter heroes (why did Toumas insist on giving warbands and hero types the same names? So annoying) will never be the ultimate melee fighters because they have no Strength skills.  They will become great shooters with the right advances, and won't be bad with a few skills even if they never get a BS advance.

To tide them over, I start with pistols for them for that one S4 attack in melee.  Once they get a BS increase or a useful shooting skill, Witch Hunter heroes get crossbows.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 18 Apr 2016 - 20:51

Von Kurst wrote:
2) Crossbow pistol.
Actually I never take this item with WH.  I always go for the shooting Captain with crossbow.  The  Witch Hunter heroes (why did Toumas insist on giving warbands and hero types the same names? So annoying) will never be the ultimate melee fighters because they have no Strength skills.  They will become great shooters with the right advances, and won't be bad with a few skills even if they never get a BS advance.

Okay cool, I might go the traditional crossbow then. It's been a while since I Mordheimed (and that was Reiklanders, so my views might be skewed here) but will 3-4ish shooty heroes be enough? Considering the WHC and WP can get Strength skills to actually make themselves useful melee fighters, and the inevitably flagellant LGT, will those be enough to form the solid core of a melee division?

Are WH warbands capable of dividing their forces in a balanced way like that, or am I better going all-out shooty or melee with their small, concentrated size?
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Mon 18 Apr 2016 - 21:48

Hmmm. I replied with the expectation that you would have more feed back from some of the resident WHs. I described what I always do. I always take crossbows and pistols on my WHs because those are the models I like. GW made zero Witch Hunters with a crossbow pistol. As far as a win/loss record I'm more of a .500 sort of player.

I always split my forces into the warrior priest, flagellants and hounds and the Captain and his loyal Witch Hunters supporting. Occasionally one WH will take a blunderbuss and some pistols and tag along with the fighters. The lads were hell on undead and possessed in the beginning of our last campaign, slumped in the middle and then came on strong at the end. I rely on LOTS of hired swords to add both muscle and missile support. And to make money to afford LOTS of hired swords (its a vicious circle).

I think your crossbow pistol idea may have some merit, but I have no experience to shine on supporting it.
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PostSubject: Re: Starting warbands - Post them here! (Read first post, plz)   Today at 4:58

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