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shotguncoffee
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PostSubject: new mordheim release... almost   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 11:55

while it doesn't really faeture enough skulls, take a look:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=114946&d=1311539666
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 13:09

Clearly not enough skulls there, its rather sickening in fact, the whole thing should be made of skulls or is that going over the top?

Doc
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 13:23

Yeah, very few skulls indeed... sadly, I love em! - though pitty the few skulls they managed to get in all seem to be hacked over their left eye... if you're gonna copy paste, why not make the walls themselves out of it??? missed your chance here GW!
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 13:39

Bottom Left hand corner:
"The Gateway section cleverly bends the architecture of the empire with the morbid imagery of Morr in extrodanery detail"

What is really ment:
The Gateway Section cleverly makes place for yet more skulls that we overuse in extrodanery amount"

I mean really. The empire are meant to be the good guys. Undead, yes. Orcs, yes. Chaos, yes. Pretty much bloody anyone would furnish nearly everywhere with skulls except for the empire because The empire are meant to be jolly nice people and actually put people in the ground not just dig a bit of a hole and pop there head off so the body will fit in the sodding hole. [/rant]

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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 13:45

*shrug*

I don't see what the problem is, I quite like it.

The skulls remind me of that real life chapel with the furnishings etc all madefrom real human bones. Designed to remind us that we are only mortal, memento mori and all that.
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 14:05

sure, skulls in your archetecture, no problem, but GW has gone on a skull spree over their last bunch of projects. it doesn't matter what you pick up, there will be a (rather poorly sculpted most of the times) skull in it.
Be it their battlefield, in which the soil of the entire planet is appearantly made up of skulls covered with grass (wtf?)
The new High elves, which in previous editions had hearts and stuff on every model, now feature skulls on their bases too,
The empire models trot around with bones, skulls and other dead stuff,
The fulcrums have seriously massive skulls in their bases... WHAT WIZARD will take the time to craft that in while trying to reign from his mighty tower??
And now they stacked so many actual skulls on the fences, and walls.

If they would have taken a little bit of time to make different skulls, or just crown them or whatever, then it might have been a nice addition to your game table... Now you will need to spend a lot of time getting rid of these skulls and making your own decorations...
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 14:32

Well, as you can clearly see, it shows only that the priests of Morr have been given too little consideration so far: Instead of doing their job (that is, burying people, keeping the graveyard nice and clean, water the flowers on the graves), they are apparently chilling out all the time and play skull bowling with the Morr Knights if they drop by, and if not, simply with all the animals and beastmen they will attrackt with so much dead stuff on their fences in the vast forests of the empire.

This is, of course, going where all the arguments of "old people" go when it comes to GWs style development during the last decade: it's not for the grown ups, it's for kids of 12 years age who love the evil looking skulls, and in order to not only sell Khorne warriors, they need to put them everywere.

If it was twisted and sinister like Mordheim should be, alright, but this is just OTT all the damn time and it's not Mordheim but the bloody Empire... but as we know, the Empire is just an evil place were people fight all the time, are exploited, wage war and go mad and become flagellants... The fantasy world GW created was kind of cool, but if it's all going down the "constant epic war" drain, there's not much flair left.
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Mon 25 Jul 2011 - 14:51

Que the completly irrelevent comment about fantasy; The reason I dont play fantasy is becuase I like orcs, everyone has a soft spot for them. But why would they fight in formation? god knows. anyway back to the graveyard. Appologies if I came across to strong about disliking skulls. No, I like the odd skull here and there. A throne of skulls, how cool. For an evil skulltaking chaos god. It was mainly aimed at alot of the new stuff with all skulls everywhere. The skulls in the walls are nice but on the fences and the floor is abit OTT.

But thats my 2p

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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 1:06

I seriously don't get what the complaints are all about... I'm currently working on my own Garden of Morr (inspired by the rumour of GW releasing this set) and I must say this looks a lot better than I expected! I will definately pick up one (or maybe even two) to use for parts (statues and skully bits mostly)... Combined with my own constructions, this will make for a very impressive scenery piece!

Check out my scenery thread for the latest wip pictures of my mausoleum and monument...
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 1:34

Sure in combination it might be a nice addition, but on it's own... It's just such an obvious copy pasting of bits that haven't been used all that creatively. But those that have some modelling skills will use the right bits of course.

I just really dislike the skulls on the fences (squeezed in human skulls) no problem with the architectural pieces, except for lack of diversity. But like Eli said, the priests of morr take care of the dead, they don't litter it around so necromancers can have their free and easy pick.... it's just a bit too much obvious dead stuff... it's ok to use skulls to indicate a purpose or deity, but this takes it too far - plus, all the previous scenic projects feature easy skulls, just not too excited abuout this... I liked your morr bits a lot better. it depicts an actual scene (in the arches you've got your winged death, some small angels of death... that's good, and depicts a scene. this is just skulls to no point)

but hey, to each his own...
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 3:36

Anything that's overdone ad nauseum becomes tiresome. Like G.W's use pf the words "characterful" & "mighty", they've passed the point of no return with all the skulls...at least from my perspective. What a Face

NOTE: since this new release pertains to terrain, I've moved it to the Scenery Section.
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 5:05

Well, It's a Graveyard, and Morr thinks that it's a garden, so obviously skulls would be the most lavish decoration. This is NOTHING compared to the overused skull motifs on the Watchtower and Chapel. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 5:37

I agree with what's been said so far. Also, aren't Gardens of Morr supposed to be small fortresses able to defend attacks from without AND within?
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 6:17

I'm with Theo on this - I love it. It gets a free pass from all the usual cries of "Too Many Skulls!" as it is a graveyard!

Take a look at this real place... then say the Garden of Morr has too many skulls!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedlec_Ossuary

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kostnice_Sedlec.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sedlec-Ossuary.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 6:43

It does make sense that an ossuary, being a repository for the bones of the deceased, would contain an inordinate amount of skulls...the catacombs beneath the streets of Paris is another treasure trove of skulls. I believe that the comments about too many skulls were a matter of expressing individual views on the subject. Since G.W., for lack of enough imagination to come up with alternate forms of sinister objects, sticks skulls on everything, it kills the effect...whatever floats your boat. Suspect


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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 6:44

Skulls don't need water
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 7:23

I quite like it. Doubly so since it is designed to be modular and fits in well with the style of the previously-released GW buildings. Very useful.

In this case, the emphasis on skully architecture seems entirely appropriate.



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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 12:55

Tome of Salvation - WHFRPG 2nd Edition wrote:
Temples of Morr are almost always built of stone, and always
Feature a broad stone doorway with no door always open just as
the gates to death and dreams are. Forming the door are a pair of
pillars. One is always black and the other is white to refect the
dual nature of the God. Morrian temples are often underground,
and are always quiet places, notable for their cool temperatures and
excellent ventilation. Other details depend on the order.

Temples of the Order of the Shroud are normally rectangular in
plan, with several side chambers in which bodies can be prepared
for burial. The main altar is at the end of the hall opposite the door
and there is a bier in front of it where the deceased is placed during a
funeral. Beyond the altar is a door leading into the Garden of Morr.
large remples have several altars, so more than one funeral can be
conducted at a time, and each altar has its own door into the Garden.
The doors to the Garden of Morr can be closed and locked.

The Garden itself is a black rose garden, rended by the priests,
with stone monuments to the dead dotted about. In theory, these
monuments are all small, but rich individuals can convince the
high priest that "small" is entirely relative; relative to the temple of
Sigmar in Altdori for example. The bereaved may visit the Garden
in the company of a priest of Morr, but layfolk are not allowed into
the Garden by themselves. To help enforce this, most Gardens are
surrounded by high stone walls, and the only enrrance is through
the temple itself. Accommodation for the priests is normally builr
along one wall of the Garden.

This Garden of Morr seems to fit perfect with its high fences (or was it stone walls) and the entrance is clearly not through a gate, but through a small temple...
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 13:33

Overused skulls are the new Overused Purity Seals.

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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 17:49

I have mixed feelings about this new piece of terrain. On one hand, it makes sense that being a graveyard (or being used as one), it is only natural that it contains the odd skull here and there. But because this is coming from GW, I guess people become defensive towards anything that looks like "the usual stuff full of skulls".

Their usual terrain, like the chapel and watchtower (completely agree with Theo), contains way more skulls than you would expect - unless the good people from the Empire have developed this habit of picking up skulls from the ground and sticking them on the first wall they find. Smile

Either way, it becomes too much at times. And contradictory to some Warhammer footage, like these 2 videos, where you only see a few skulls (if such) ornamenting the buildings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cky8mJCp-d4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOhzfkCdbY

Their older undead terrain contains considerably less skulls than the new one too:

Forge World graveyard (incredibly expensive!): http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Terrain/GOTHIC-GRAVEYARD-SET.html

Citadel Graveyard (OOP): http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/189731-Graveyard.html

That said, I see where people are coming from when they mention real life examples, like the Sedlec Ossuary. There is a similar construction in Portugal:

http://forge-quest.blogspot.com/2010/12/skulls.html

Hey, who knows, after all this talk I might get the damn thing! Smile

Joao
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Tue 26 Jul 2011 - 23:22

Yep, I like it; too many skulls or not.
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Wed 27 Jul 2011 - 4:27

You have to remember that the most common element in the Warhammer World is Cranium... Razz
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Wed 27 Jul 2011 - 5:05

Of the new pieces, fulcrums etc, I vote like for the Garden.
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Wed 27 Jul 2011 - 8:39

I strongly agree that they are often carried away by the skull thing. But in this case, it works.

After the 1347-1349 outbreak of the Black Death in Europe, skeletons, skulls, decomposing bodies etc. became an extremely widespread motif in art and architecture for a generation. I think GW's argument is that the Empire is constantly under that sort of pressure, and that consequently the prominence of skulls etc. in art and iconography is the natural result. The argument makes some sense... but I do find the over-abundance of skulls to be frequently tedious.

I do like this new terrain piece quite a lot though.
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PostSubject: Re: new mordheim release... almost   Wed 27 Jul 2011 - 8:48

Boreas_NL wrote:
I seriously don't get what the complaints are all about... I'm currently working on my own Garden of Morr (inspired by the rumour of GW releasing this set) and I must say this looks a lot better than I expected! I will definately pick up one (or maybe even two) to use for parts (statues and skully bits mostly)... Combined with my own constructions, this will make for a very impressive scenery piece!

Check out my scenery thread for the latest wip pictures of my mausoleum and monument...

looking forward to your smashing up the garden of morr and using them on your project that i follow with grewat intrest, i think your creations are a lot better thought out than GW
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