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HornedRat
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 14:44

Well I finally got my order from Games of War last night. I ordered the ship accessory pack and a few cannons, cannon ports, and some swivel guns. Honestly I was a bit suprised how small the cannons were considering they are supposed to be 28mm but after assembling a few and sticking them on the side of the ship I am a bit torn. The quality of the figures however is great!

While they seem smaller than I had envisioned, I am not sure there is much room for anything larger.

So I added the side railings on the main deck, I still plan to add some reinforcing to them like I did on the upper deck.

Take a look, and tell me what you think. In the below picture the gun ports haven't been cut out yet, I was waiting till I got the cannons, now I am trying to decide if I want to go with something bigger or not.


Here you can sort of get an idea of how crowded the deck will be with cannons on both sides. mind you however that the barrel will be sticking out the side so there will be another inch or so of space. One thing that is apparent from this picture is that I need to make the deck grating smaller. I also went with a simple ladder design, but I am thinking I will re-do them and go with an angled ladder vs. just having the simple ladder at an angle.


The Anchor on the other hand seems to be just about the perfect size.


I found a nice looking plastic skull ring that I plan to use as the main decoration for the aft pannel. I will be using GS (Green Stuff) to add on the other details around it. Pirate theme of course.


For the railings on the forward deck section, I am planning on using those fancy toothpicks for the slats. I took a file and just gave the grooves a quick sanding to make them a bit more defined. I think they look pretty good.



So ...should I go bigger cannons? or Considering something a bit larger?

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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 30 Sep 2010 - 15:18

Those cannons are in almost perfect scale, but they may look small for two reasons...

First, GW makes their models in heroic scale; they're not 'true' 28 mm, and are about 2 mm bigger than they should be in some cases, and getting bigger. In older models, they're only about 1mm off true 28 scale.

Second, real ship cannons were generally smaller than land based cannons. The cannons GW makes for the Empire are actually closer to siege cannons than the type that were brought to bear during pitched battles, because siege cannons were so damned unwieldy and inaccurate; they could just manage to hit the broad side of a barn, or in this case, a castle wall.

So yeah, I think they're fine really! If it still bugs you, try using the old rules for the smaller cannons, like the DOW Galloper Guns. I'm sure your opponent will prefer getting shot by half a dozen of those over the larger cannon!
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Fri 1 Oct 2010 - 17:20

THe ship has come along very nicely, imparticualy fond of the work you've done to the bow. I may need to draw inpiration from it for my own.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Wed 6 Oct 2010 - 15:12

After bugging Stormgerkin for a turorial on his cannons, and being gifted with a very awesome write up. I set out to create some Stormgerkin pattern cannons.

His instructions made it very easy to follow. Cutting the tubes is a time consuming process as is filing the tubes to make them fit. But the results are pretty awesome.

I cut enough tube for 14 cannons while watching a show.



I was able to find aluminum tube for all the lengths. Here you can get an idea of scale. I still have to find a bead that will fit for the back, and also add the supports to the side, and make all the carriages.

I am quite pleased at the look.



Thanks again to Stormgerkin for sharing his technique!! You rock cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 7 Oct 2010 - 8:46

Nice work on the cannon.

As for cannon on the gun deck, decreasing the number of guns makes for better playability. Larger guns get in the way, scale or no. We fight with our smallest ships and only 1 gun per side, but bigger warbands are still strapped for space.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 7 Oct 2010 - 10:57

Von Kurst wrote:
Nice work on the cannon.

As for cannon on the gun deck, decreasing the number of guns makes for better playability. Larger guns get in the way, scale or no. We fight with our smallest ships and only 1 gun per side, but bigger warbands are still strapped for space.


Yes, I can see how the size of the guns can really take up space on the ship, especially when you have to deal with the figures bases. The smaller guns that I purchased are great in that respect.

I dont plan to use the ship as a gaming piece, as it is more of a scenery piece so I wouldn't imagine having more than a few figures on deck at a time. If I can convince my group to get into Naval battles that could change.

These cannons are actually pretty small, and most of the barrel will be sticking out the side. I guess it really depends on how small I can make the carriage look without it being under sized.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 7 Oct 2010 - 19:57

Naval battles are an acquired taste. Best done between foes who want some swashbuckling fun and not the win at all cost crowd. If nothing else you could berth your ship in Mordheim's destroyed docks... We have a pretty good time with that as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 7 Oct 2010 - 20:19

Von Kurst wrote:
Naval battles are an acquired taste. Best done between foes who want some swashbuckling fun and not the win at all cost crowd. If nothing else you could berth your ship in Mordheim's destroyed docks... We have a pretty good time with that as well.

Yes that is the plan. Dock the ship, let them see it. Maybe fight a few scenarios that involve it. This should give me time to maybe make 1 or two more Razz and as they watch the fleet grow maybe get an interest in doing some ship to ship stuffs.

I also really like the ruined ship posted from Games Day, so I might be doing that one next Very Happy

Do you guys use Mordheim rules somehow for ship battles, or is there a system that you could suggest that fits with Mordheim?
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 7 Oct 2010 - 20:54

We are using Warhammer Ahoy! rules. Sort of. When we remember. Those were written with Mordheim in mind so there's not much that has to be changed. We do ignore some I tests when boarding to keep it simpler. We do a bit of leaping across gaps between ships and the like and if we are trying to board a taller sided ship we make climbing rolls.

We have our own class of cannon from the Zombie Pirate WD list. S7 D3 wounds. 36" range.

We use T7 ships with 10 wounds. Since your ship is larger you wouldn't need the smaller guns.

We hardly ever sink them, but we are more for the boarding action anyway. Or the zoggin elfs try to avoid contact while shooting everything that moves full of arrows. Usually a ship will strike its colors well before damage would force a test just because the crew has suffered missile and melee casualties.
We don't differentiate between gun duels and boarding actions. We pop away with our cannon until we are close enough to board and then we do. Also like WbK and the Flame On folks we generally have all ships armed with cannon no matter who sails them.

I haven't checked recently but Warhammer Ahoy!'s website was down while they worked on updating the rules for 8th edition Warhammer. (Or at least that's why I would think they were updating them.)

Also since LotHS is written with a Mordheim influence those rules can be adapted too. Warhammer Ahoy! was less work.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Mon 1 Nov 2010 - 15:33

As long as you don't let any furry skaven tards sail it into a reef you should be fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Mon 1 Nov 2010 - 17:33

Ship is turning out very well! I'm impressed by your work bending the planks. She looks sleek, fast, and stylish, like a sports car of the high seas.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Fri 3 Dec 2010 - 17:24

I am afraid I have been holding out on you guys Embarassed but I think you will be happy to see the results.

I got a bit distracted by a competition over at the TG site. I decided to build a shipwreck!

So here I will present to you a condensed version of the WIP.

I drew out the basic shape on paper


and once again I used foam for the foundation.


and shaped the front and back of the hull with sandpaper and hobby knife till I was happy with the overall look.



Using the same process as my non-wrecked ship, I soaked wooden craft sticks in warm water, and then planked the hull. I cut a keel from a piece of balsa and ran it down the middle of the shaped foam.


I continued this way, using a sheet of balsa for the decks and railings etc. I then used some dowel of various sizes for the masts, and some cross stitch fabric for the sails. I cut up a small piece of dowel to for deadeyes for the rigging, and used some crochet thread for the ratlines. Going into this project, I was considering this whole model a bit of a testing ground for my intact ship, as there were a few things I wasn't quite sure how to handle.





And work and work and work ...till ....


and a shot of her with a basic coat of paint as she sits right now.


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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Fri 3 Dec 2010 - 17:36

You just scared the bejeezus out of me...I shot to the bottom of the page; then scrolling up, the first thing I saw was the ship broken in half...OH MY GOD HE WRECK THE SHIP! affraid
The Wreck is BEAUTIFUL & finding out it's not your almost complete WORK OF WONDER is a definite relief. Not only is your woodwork & now rigging SPECTACULAR, it seems like you are becoming prolific/quick in producing these GREAT PIECES. MARVELOUSLY WELL DONE! thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Fri 3 Dec 2010 - 17:39

Amazing work. I do think that for a wreck with that much damage, she's carrying too much sail and her masts are in pristine shape which is unlikely. That said everytime I look at this thread I see another use for those Creatology galleons.

I've been playing around with a Shipwreck Cove for the last couple of weeks. Either or both halves would fit right in there!

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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Fri 3 Dec 2010 - 18:08

Thanks for the comments guys!

I agree the sails are in pretty good shape. Razz The competition was to reproduce a scene from a movie, I took the oportunity to make a wrecked version of my intact ship.

I used this picture as my inspiration and in the the movie the ship is newely wrecked. The center mast having been ripped to shreds only moments before. I was actually planning on creating the tentacles that are pulling this ship down, but ran out of time. I am still planning to create them at some point, along with adding a bit more details and doing a bit more work on the painting. In a large part this really was a proof of concept. I am hoping the time pays off with the intact ship itself.

I have really been having fun with these ship models and losely have plans for a few more Razz Which means I might have to do a few more wrecks as well!




For now, I plan to go back and put some of my learning to use and try to finish up the first model along with a more detailed write up of how I did this (I haven't forgot) Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Sat 4 Dec 2010 - 3:21

Oh wow oh boy!!! Shocked

That is so great!! pirat

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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Sat 4 Dec 2010 - 10:35

HornedRat... I love you.



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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Sat 4 Dec 2010 - 12:16

What an excellent side-project! I cannot begin to describe my envy of anyone who gets to game on and around your completed masterpiece... And not wishing to intentionally distract you from the main vessel you've been slaving over but I really can't wait to see your first Skaven watercraft. Wink

How long can your warband be denied seafaring supremacy. Cruising around the Sea of Claws on a custom Doombringer they would be the scourge of the Sea of Claws and envied by their Council of Thirteen counterparts!
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 23 Dec 2010 - 1:56

wow... increadable.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Thu 23 Dec 2010 - 16:46

WOW.

Being the type that looks at the pictures before I read (shame on me), I thought you accidently broke your ship!

I saw the caption above it that read, "And work work work until..."

I was filled with dread. Glad to see that is a seperate project. WHICH IS AMAZING.

Marry me and build me an airship please.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Mon 3 Jan 2011 - 17:54

So by chance I happened upon something that I am sure you will find interesting so I thought I would share!

I forget what I was looking up, it might have been pirate games or something about waterlined ships (Doing more research for my first ship) and found out that Milton Bradley used to make a game called Broadsides & Boarding Parties.



But what really got me excited however was that the ships supplied in the game were waterline ships and they were plastic. I quickly set out to find some and got super lucky that someone was parting out the game on Ebay!! The hulls for the ships were cheap enough, so I decided to take a chance and purchase them. I also picked up some of the cannons for the game.

Here is what they look like.






I was quite pleased to see that they aren't to much out of scale, and actually might work really well with smaller figures!


Here is a shot of the cannons compared to some I purchased earlier for my ship. They are a bit smaller, but still would do the job nicely I think. They are plastic and one piece.


So I think that with a bit of work they will convert up really nice! The masts for the ship that come with the game actually look pretty decent, but I didn't want to spend the extra $$ and figured I would just make my own if the hulls worked out. The game can still be found here and there and prices for the entire game seem to vary a great deal but you get 2 ships with the game. I might even pick up a few more if I can find them for the right price. It would be pretty easy to get an entire fleet going this way!
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Mon 3 Jan 2011 - 18:09

Broadsides and Boarding Parties is a great resource. Congrats on the find.
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Mon 3 Jan 2011 - 18:13

CONGRATULATIONS on the find...the ship looks EXCELLENT! thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Tue 4 Jan 2011 - 2:42

Ooooh! Very cool!

I'll have to keep a weather-eye out for one of those. pirat
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PostSubject: Re: Another attempt at a pirate ship...   Tue 4 Jan 2011 - 9:15

Nice!! That's very cool. I too will be keeping my ebay eye on this game. Thanks for the info, HR!

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