Orcs and goblins list for new campaign

Having gone with a troll start last campaign I'm thinking of doing something a little bit different this time around.

HEROES

Mob Boss - 96gc
2xMace
Bow

2xBigUns - 86gc
Club
Free Dagger

Sharman - 43gc
Club
Free Dagger

HENCHMEN

Pit Fighter - 30gc

4xOrc Boyz - 112gc (2 groups)
Club
Free Dagger

4xGoblins - 72gc (2 groups)
Club
Free Dagger

4xSquigs - 60gc

Total - 499gc for a total of 17 models.

Will be versing Undead and Witch Hunters.

We're nerfing dual wield so that the off hand is at -1 to hit and can never crit (offset by combat skill), -1 to armour only starts at S5, +1 save to shield/hand weapon combo.

Debating if whether I should split my henchman up into groups of 1 to maximize lads got talent (for the Orcs anyway). Decided to ditch the short bows on the goblins because it was too expensive. Also ditto for the squig prodder - at 15gc that's an extra squig!

The Pit Fighter is amazing value! 2xS5 and 1xS4 attack for first turn of combat along with S4 and T4 for only 30gc!

Will immediately Mad Cap (common item for me) my hero if he gains an additional attack Frenzied with 4 attacks! Except unless it's the Shaman because you can't cast spells if you're stupid.

Will probably split up my deployment - keep the goblins and squigs to one side and my orcs on the other. The squigs will probably go wild at some stage and that's okay as long as they're far enough away from my heroes.

As the gold rolls in will probably focus on better gear as at 17 models I already outnumber the maximum model count my opponents are allowed.

Thoughts and comments welcome.

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Debating if whether I should split my henchman up into groups of 1 to maximize lads got talent (for the Orcs anyway).

This is not a debate for an orc player (or really any Mordheim player except Skaven). Always maximize your chances of Lads Got Talent at the beginning of a campaign.

On the other hand if you are going to take goblins you want to MINIMIZE your chances of LGT with them, especially if they are all armed the same. The gobbos should all be one group of 4.

Quote :

Except unless it's the Shaman because you cast spells if you're stupid.

I think this sentence is missing something...

That's a powerful list, really well suited for a short campaign.

If any criticism, since Orcs start with 4 heroes max only, you have 16 members to split the loot, and don't have any exporation bonus, I think the 15gc unkeep the Pit Fighter has will make really difficult to replace casualties and acquire gear as well. Imagine you loose a match with two of your heroes OoA, you will have to split the 1 or 2 shards you will get, leaving you only with 10 or 15 gc after paying the Pit Fighter... some bad luck with the injury table and you will be falling behind really fast.

I'd keep the Pit Fighter despite that, because he's a beast (he should have ambidextrous skill if you are playing with dual wielding houserules), but play safe your heroes during the first match, buy a crossbow for the Boss ASAP, and give bows to the BigUns to minimize the risk of getting them OoA. You will need all the exploration dice you can get. You have a bunch of henchmen to risk, try to keep your heroes alive to explore, and specialise one of them as close combat oriented only after getting an extra attack or T5.

Undead will be a problem for your gobbos and squigs... I'd consider getting 1-2 more orcs instead 2-4 of those chickens. Having half your band vulnerable to fear doesn't seem like a good choice if half of your matches will be against Undead. Droping your band to 15 members will give you 5gc every exploration phase and another orc group will increase the chances of getting a new hero.

Von Kurst wrote:

Quote :

Debating if whether I should split my henchman up into groups of 1 to maximize lads got talent (for the Orcs anyway).

This is not a debate for an orc player (or really any Mordheim player except Skaven).  Always maximize your chances of Lads Got Talent at the beginning of a campaign.  

On the other hand if you are going to take goblins you want to MINIMIZE your chances of LGT with them, especially if they are all armed the same.  The gobbos should all be one group of 4.

Quote :

Except unless it's the Shaman because you cast spells if you're stupid.

I think this sentence is missing something...

Yep good point... I've come around and will split up my Orcs into 4 individual groups. Regarding the goblins the downside of having only one group is that you're kinda stuck with whatever advancements they get.

bitxo wrote:

Undead will be a problem for your gobbos and squigs... I'd consider getting 1-2 more orcs instead 2-4 of those chickens. Having half your band vulnerable to fear doesn't seem like a good choice if half of your matches will be against Undead. Droping your band to 15 members will give you 5gc every exploration phase and another orc group will increase the chances of getting a new hero.

Yeah good point regarding psychology.

Do squigs have do to fear tests? Because technically they don't "charge". They rather just 2D6 into combat and from memory you only fear test if you're charging. They'll probably will need to test for fear if they are charged themselves... thoughts?

Agree that the Pit Fighter is a beast! In terms of house rules we probably will leave out Ambidextrous since he's already somewhat OP for his cost. He's a better fighter than my Mob Boss but at less than half the cost!

I'm not sure on prioritizing getting bows for my BugUns. With BS3, moving, long range and cover you're only hitting on 6s. Will probably end up getting them eventually.

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Do squigs have do to fear tests? Because technically they don't "charge". They rather just 2D6 into combat and from memory you only fear test if you're charging. They'll probably will need to test for fear if they are charged themselves... thoughts?

Oh the horrible rules for squigs.  

My group (or at least those of us who can remember the evening we discussed this) has adopted the recommendations published by Mordheimer in his Ultimate FAQ.  So the squig takes its fear test after it moves, not before.  But still needs 6s if it fails.  

The squig definitely needs to test if charged or if it wishes to intercept a fear causing charger because it is not immune to fear.

My personal opinion about the squig rules is that the author of the warband could have just as well written "make up your own rules for them." Instead he wrote a couple of vague sentences that don't say anything useful, so groups have to make up house rules just to play the warband.

Individual goblin groups: they are goblins. Like they are going to become useful for anything? If you have lots of little goblin groups you can roll LGT for each one come advance time. So they are all dead anyway. One of the players in my group took five goblins, he didn't roll an LGT for an orc group until last week (only his 8th game or so because he missed a month of play) Before that he was leaving the corpses of uppity gobbos all over the place while complaining because his orcs didn't roll LGT.

Von Kurst wrote:

My group (or at least those of us who can remember the evening we discussed this) has adopted the recommendations published by Mordheimer in his Ultimate FAQ.  So the squig takes its fear test after it moves, not before.  But still needs 6s if it fails.

Yeah that makes sense. Given that goblins and squigs are both Ld 5 it looks like my Mob Boss will have to babysit them when taking on the Undead.

It also raises the questions what happens to fear tests if they go wild? Do they still need to test? And if they do can they still use the Mob Boss' Ld despite the fact that they're wild? Or are they completely immune to psychology because they've gone wild? Also when wild are they immune to the all alone test?

I can see you point about their rules being somewhat incomplete lol.

Von Kurst wrote:

Individual goblin groups: they are goblins. Like they are going to become useful for anything?

Must admit I do have a soft spot for them. Would make decent archers with a BS increase. Also if they can an additional attack then giving them mad cap and ball and chain would give you 4xS5 attacks D4 wounds with no armour save!

Squigs aren't inmune to psychology, like zombies aren't inmune to Lure of Chaos spell because they don't have mind, don't mix fluff with actual rules. I think it works like Von Kurst said.

Beware making goblin henchmen archers. They don't have access to anything else than short bows and don't shoot 17% times because animosity, even with BS4 they suck at shooting. I like to keep them as one group of expendable meat to give support to the orc henchmen and outnumber your rivals in CC.

About mad cap and ball chain... it isn't cost effective at all. Consider it only because the fun factor, because chances of making that expensive R3 goblin an arrow magnet are high, and you won't have plenty of gold to spare. I'd rather invest in rabbit feet, lucky charms, helmets... things that last all the campaign. But it's something really to threat your friends with if you go for the laughs.

I understand most people is tempted to use their orc heroes for close combat, but I think with a band list like yours, you really need to keep them alive to roll dice during exploration, and orc heroes make as good snipers as Witch Hunters do. You already have 12 close combat henchmen, a PitFighter and a Shaman... it really is long range support what you lack. Some people just don't like to use their heroes for ranged so, if you want to use yours for close combat is totally ok, but you should give them better equipment, and that means a smaller band.

Da Mob Rulz, p.11 wrote:

Minderz:
Each Cave Squig must always remain within 6" of a Goblin Warrior,
who keeps the creature in line. If a CaveSquig finds itself without a
Goblin within 6" at the start of its
Movement phase, it will go wild. From that point on, move
the Squig 2D6" in a random direction during each of its
Movement phases. If its movement takes it into contact with
another model (friend or foe), it will engage the model in
hand-to-hand combat as normal. The Cave Squig is out of the
Orc & Goblin player’s control until the end of the game.

Immune to psychology is not mentioned in the rules, therefore the squigs are not immune.  The FAQ referenced above still applies. All alone applies.  The squigs are "out of the Orc & Goblin player’s control until the end of the game".  I don't understand how a squig that is out of control uses the Leader's leadership (since that would be control).

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Given that goblins and squigs are both Ld 5 it looks like my Mob Boss will have to babysit them when taking on the Undead.

That is a waste of da Boss.

The squigs will still move and attack. So if you keep them in a pack, they should be fine, even if the pack is only two or three against one model.  Fear only lasts for the first round and squigs are initiative 4 so they are as fast as a starting vampire or possessed.  The goblins are really only there to deliver squigs to where you want squigs to go and to provide entertainment.  

Also I am interested in why you only have to worry about fear with the Undead.  The Possessed have two significant fear causers who just love to eat squigs and gobbos.  I mean think about this. Hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s versus goblins, or fighting T4 orcs...  My Possessed loved squigs and gobbos-though I admit I usually had to eat orcs instead.  Especially after the orc players gave up on da squigs.

What I like to do in the current (Orcs only) campaign is charge the goblin minders with my troll.  Squigs go wild, problem solved or at least shared.

A good tactic against the troll (or any fear causer) is to mob him with the squigs.  If you have more than 3 he can't kill them all in one round. And even if he wounds 3 (hitting on 4s...not likely), he is not likely to KILL 3.  Even if they are all hitting on 6s in the first round, some might hit. And in the second round, squigs are initiative 4, so they strike first versus ogres and trolls and roll off with beginning Possessed and Vampires (and they no longer need 6s.)

A really good tactic versus undead would be to hunt dregs and necromancers with goblins and squigs...

bitxo wrote:

About mad cap and ball chain... it isn't cost effective at all. Consider it only because the fun factor, because chances of making that expensive R3 goblin an arrow magnet are high, and you won't have plenty of gold to spare. I'd rather invest in rabbit feet, lucky charms, helmets... things that last all the campaign. But it's something really to threat your friends with if you go for the laughs.

Just had another look at the rules and you're absolutely right! Fanatics are pretty terrible in their Mordheim versions compared to the their Warhammer equivalents prior to GW blowing everything up. 55gc with a 1/3 chance of dying regardless if they're OOA or not along with a 1/6 chance every turn of things going potentially very wrong.

Von Kurst wrote:

That is a waste of da Boss.

The squigs will still move and attack. So if you keep them in a pack, they should be fine, even if the pack is only two or three against one model.  Fear only lasts for the first round and squigs are initiative 4 so they are as fast as a starting vampire or possessed.  The goblins are really only there to deliver squigs to where you want squigs to go and to provide entertainment.  

Also I am interested in why you only have to worry about fear with the Undead.  The Possessed have two significant fear causers who just love to eat squigs and gobbos.  I mean think about this. Hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s versus goblins, or fighting T4 orcs...  My Possessed loved squigs and gobbos-though I admit I usually had to eat orcs instead.  Especially after the orc players gave up on da squigs.

Yep good points as always. Sometimes I forget that Orcs have the luxury of having T4 troops across the board to deny easy XP kills for your opponents. Should be interesting too see how the squishy T3 goblins and squigs perform.

I'm still not that comfortable with the idea of shooty Orc heroes. I just think it's a waste of their initial starting T4. Plus with BS 3 you'll be missing a lot of your shots. I think they really need an advance in their BS if they're going to be efficient shooty heroes.

The Mob Boss is rather interesting - only hero starting at S4 but also has BS4 so he can probably go either way. Still you'll most likely want him to be scrapping with your lads to take advantage of his leadership.

So the randomness of the game can make a mockery of your plans:
I have one goblin in my warband who is not a hired sword. He is there to deliver the squigs and only to deliver the squigs. He has died twice while I have lost no squigs. So in his third incarnation his first advance is attacks. He is still a WS2 S3 goblin though so I am not too excited.

Then my squigs all die in one game. But the goblin gains S4! I had intended to clean out the riff raff by attrition. But now the gobin is my best henchman warrior. So instead of buying more orcs, I'm thinking of spending my money on a gobbo suicide squad. I hope I roll high so I can add at least two...