Some BTB questions

1. How "Duel to the Death" from Scourge of the realm objective works? I mean this part:

Duel to Death wrote:

If there is no warband with the Scion of Chaos objective participating in the campaign, use the rules for a Chaos
Champion from the Bestiary. As soon as the last check box is filled and after the next battle in which the contender
wasn’t taken out of action, let them fight.

Does it work like injury 65 "get in the ring"? (post battle duel)
2. Items found in scenarios (such as ornamental weapon in Last Orders or powder kergs in Horrors of the Underground) - is "finding" warband free to keep them or are they left?
3. Do I have to roll for weather conditions and random happenings when playing Horrors(I think not, it's under ground after all)?
4. When powder keg explodes and there is another keg in the radius, does it auto explode(chain explosion!!  )?
5. Tainted Copse - forest sections in this scenario are considered as normal or rotting forest for setting on fire purposes?

1) I would agree that it would work like an injury roll of 65 (get in the ring).
2) No. I'm sure that was answered but I couldn't find the thread.
3) No. Answered here:
https://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/t6402-btb-horrors-of-the-underground

I hope this helps.

It helps indeed   Thanks (especially for those links)!
Now I'm waiting for 4,5  

4. An exploding powder keg counts as one of the weapons that can cause a keg to explode, meaning: Roll to wound as normal (Strength 6 vs Toughness 4), roll again if wounded - explosion on 4+.

5. These rules are not neccesarily tied to a specific scenario. Like with the houses the idea is to apply the rules so they fit the terrain you have at hand. Do your tree sections look rotten? Then let the rotten rules apply. Do they look normal? Then apply those rules. Do you have mixed styles? Then you can have proper rules for them. Alternatively, if the gaming group sees advantages in either of the two (rotten or normal) then they may want to agree on what section is what or maybe they are all rotten one game and the next they will count as normal. It would also make sense to agree on having rotten trees when the determined region is the Chaos Wastes while in the Borderlands the trees are normal. This is all really up to your specific situation and preferences.

Thanks Cianty!
I have another bunch of questions:
1. Is it possible to transport powder keg on a horse?
2. Where are the rules for Heavy snowfall?

Bitter Cold wrote:

Ice field: The Northern weather is so cold that lakes
and rivers become frozen. Therefore such terrain can
be crossed as if it were difficult ground. If a model
runs across frozen water it muss pass an Initiative test
or it slips and becomes knocked down. Ignore this
during Heavy Snowfall.

3. How Blaze spreading works? I looked in fire rules section and there's nothing about it.  

Gale wrote:

Blaze spreading: The fire from burning trees or
buildings can jump over to other objects or features.
See Fire Rules for details.

4. Can cathayan candles be used with knife fighter skill (as they are "thrown weapons")?

2. I believe that 'Heavy Snowfall' actually refers to 'Blizzard'. So, the Northern Wastes are always affected by 'Bitter Cold' which includes 'Ice Field'. However, the weather for the scenario might be 'Blizzard' which would then negate 'Ice Field' but obviously brings its own problems.

3. The are no rules for 'Blaze Spreading' within BTB (or within the source material for fires that BTB expands). This was the original reason why I created a compilation article on fire that merged the BTB fire rules with the more comprehensive fire rules in the "Let the Damned Burn" article from Town Cryer 8. You may have seen those rules already (because I like to point people to that article ) but if not then you can find a link to the PDF in my signature below.

4. No. They are not knives or throwing stars (refer rules below). The rules don't refer to "thrown weapons" but rather to "these weapons". A while ago StyrofoamKing added throwing axes to a warband list (a Dwarf Slayer Cult warband I believe) and his solution was simply to create a new skill similar to Knife-Fighter for use with throwing axes.

Quote :

Knife-Fighter. The warrior is an unrivalled expert at using throwing knives and throwing stars. He can throw a maximum of three of these missiles in his shooting phase and may divide his shots between any targets within range as he wishes. Note that this skill cannot be combined with the Quick Shot skill.

3. Thanks RationalLemming! Your compilation is very useful, I'm printing it right now   May I ask, where did you get the rules for setting coaches on fire? Can they be used in BTB? are they official? 

No worries. Werekin made the rules for setting boats on fire. I adjusted the rules to cover coaches using a similar approach. That section is probably the only real part that was written entirely by me. As a result, that section would have the least play testing.

Sounds great! There's a lot of wagons in our campaign (even I'm considering buying one) and I was often wondering why there are no rules concerning this subject. Now everything is clear  Thanks!
I'l

@catachanfrog LOL, I just emailed you.

Thinking about it, I do wonder what impact setting wagons on fire has in campaign. In contrast to boats which are simply "there" (like houses) wagons are a vital aspect for some warbands (Merchants mostly) and the official wagon rules (I hate them) already allow destroying wagons quite easily. Making wagons even more vulnerable could hurt the balance of the Merchant (which I already consider on the lower end). I totally like the idea of setting wagon on fire but I would propose allowing this only along with a revision of the wagon rules.

Message recieved and understood!  
What about 1,2,3,4?  
Oh, and the old 1 and 2:

catachanfrog wrote:

1. How "Duel to the Death" from Scourge of the realm objective works? I mean this part:

Duel to Death wrote:

If there is no warband with the Scion of Chaos objective participating in the campaign, use the rules for a Chaos
Champion from the Bestiary. As soon as the last check box is filled and after the next battle in which the contender
wasn’t taken out of action, let them fight.

Does it work like injury 65 "get in the ring"? (post battle duel)
2. Items found in scenarios (such as ornamental weapon in Last Orders or powder kergs in Horrors of the Underground) - is "finding" warband free to keep them or are they left?

Hmmm... I had not considered campaign use for fire for wagons and fire for boats. It is an example where something may work well in theory and mechanically be OK but when applied to a warband and a campaign it works less well. I will update the document with a disclaimer that those fire rules don't work so good when campaigns feature warbands who actually own wagons and boats.

Thanks cianty.

I've got a new series of objectives on the go as you know. One of these explores sabotage themes which includes destroying vehicles. This would be an ideal opportunity to explore and redefine the guidelines for using wagons. It also ties in with the fire rules, blazes spreading and sinking boats.

It's not something I wish to write about personally but I'd be very keen to read new articles on the subject. I would even publish them on the blog.

The one topic I'd like to contribute towards personally is modifications to customise/improve boats & wagons. This is a Marketplace location (Shipwright/Cartwright) to be visited in the post battle sequence.

werekin wrote:

The one topic I'd like to contribute towards personally is modifications to customise/improve boats & wagons. This is a Marketplace location (Shipwright/Cartwright) to be visited in the post battle sequence.

+1

I was hoping that you might be secretly working on an expose for wagoneering Rationale? After the good work you did on collating & promoting the fire rules.

It was unfortunate that the wagon rules weren't revamped for BTB. I am a big fan of the original EiF articles but Cianty hasn't found them altogether satisfying. What was added successfully promoted mercantile ventures as there were lots of BTB Merchant hobby projects happening out there but they're still just so shaky... shonky... flawed... susceptible... which is as it should be... unless... you customise your land train!

My river barge needs some modifications... armour plating, an oxybeles mounted at the stern to fend off mutant-pirates, a steam engine, and a hidden compartment. Also some kind of balancing gizmo to help prevent it from capsizing would look kind of neat.

During our last BTB game appeared small question: Dwarves hates Hobgoblins as the rest greenskins family?
What about hate rules on the line Dwarfs vs Chaos Dwarfs & vice versa?
Do you made any modifications like that in yours game-groups?

Dwarfs army book 7ed:

Hill goblins, plains goblins, swamp goblins... The grudge list goes on...

It should be noted though, that Mordheim and BTB are both (mostly*) based on Warhammer 5th edition. Taking rules from later editions while the profiles are still from an older edition is not neccessarily perfect. Mordheim would need an overall update - not just in parts.

Also, I find it sad that these types of things are always only based on fluffy background and rarely take balacing into account.

I am not saying I am against or for it, though, it's just what I think when I read this.


*The Beastmen in the Possessed warband e.g. were based on 5th but the Beastmen warband from Empire in Flames was released when the new Beastmen army book for 6th was already out and in that one Gors had one Wound. Of course, the cursed City of the Damned is a convenient background to find all sorts of Chaotic excused for such mutations.


DISCLAIMER: I tend to mix up editions... was it in fact 5th and 6th? Or was it 6th and 7th? Where is Warhammer now? I lost track of all this years ago... 

cianty wrote:

It should be noted though, that Mordheim and BTB are both (mostly*) based on Warhammer 5th edition. Taking rules from later editions while the profiles are still from an older edition is not neccessarily perfect. Mordheim would need an overall update - not just in parts.

Aye, one of my friends argues, every now and then, that Saurus should have a Scaly Skin save of 6+, while Skinks shouldn't have one, because "that's how it is in the new rulebook!" - then I have to say, that everything in Mordheim is based on the old rulebook, so we'd have to change that as well. Usually that stops the argument.

cianty wrote:

Also, I find it sad that these types of things are always only based on fluffy background and rarely take balacing into account.

I agree, the Dwarf Treasure Hunters only mention Orcs & Goblins*.

Quote :

Hate Orcs & Goblins: All Dwarfs hate Orcs and Goblins. See the psychology section of the Mordheim rules for details on the effects of hatred.

*Which could of course be interpretated to HobGOBLINS, but I believe the authors had the warband "Orcs and Goblins" in mind. Snotlings are not part of this of course.

Unless there's need for this - Dwarves really losing big time to Hobgoblins - I don't see why it should be implemented. On the other hand, you could try it out and see if it really makes that big a difference.

cianty wrote:

DISCLAIMER: I tend to mix up editions... was it in fact 5th and 6th? Or was it 6th and 7th? Where is Warhammer now? I lost track of all this years ago... 

Warhammer is running in the 8th edition and Mordheim is based on the 5th. Don't know about the Beastmen thing you mentioned

There aren't any hobgoblins in Mordheim. If there were then I'm pretty sure the dwarfs would be on their case due to an ancestral grudge!

Personally I love it when scenarios, warband lists & other campaign material are fitting with the background material. Otherwise it just seems like there's no attention to detail been put in to crafting the article. I don't think following the fluff compromises gameplay. This level of research and detail deserves some recognition. These are the classic works which inspired me to work on player aids for narrative campaigns.

The best rule from 5th edition that seems to be missing from the orc & goblin articles is that in 5th edition Warhammer, goblins FEAR elves! Leadership tests please all you gobbo lovers.

Does anyone still play with beastmen warbands these days?! :p

werekin wrote:

The best rule from 5th edition that seems to be missing from the orc & goblin articles is that in 5th edition Warhammer, goblins FEAR elves! Leadership tests please all you gobbo lovers.

You're absolutely right, completely forgot about that - gotta suggest that for a house rule

werekin wrote:

Does anyone still play with beastmen warbands these days?! :p

Yes of course!  

werekin wrote:

The best rule from 5th edition that seems to be missing from the orc & goblin articles is that in 5th edition Warhammer, goblins FEAR elves! Leadership tests please all you gobbo lovers.

Of course an elf lover would forget the most important part of that rule--"A unit of Goblins fears any unit of Elves which it does not outnumber by at least two to one." Warhammer Armies, Orcs and Goblins, 1993, p. 70 (Fourth and Fifth Edition)

The outnumber bit is the fiddly part for Mordheim...

On the subject of Dwarfs and greenskins--"Dwarfs hate all goblinoids (Orcs, goblins, hobgoblins and snotlings.)"
Warhammer Fantasy Battles 1987, p. 213. (Third Edition)

And--"Dwarfs hate all Orcs, including Black Orcs and Savage Orcs, and all Goblins regardless of type." Warhammer Armies, Dwarfs 1993, p. 76. (Fourth and Fifth Edition)

Haha ok busted by an elf-loathing dwarf sympathizer.

Two elf henchmen charge one goblin hero. Time to roll for psychology greenskin scum!

Snotlings fall under the orcs & goblins umbrella, agreed. It's cool to hate, if you're a long-bearded short-arse.

Von Kurst wrote:

Of course an elf lover would forget the most important part of that rule--"A unit of Goblins fears any unit of Elves which it does not outnumber by at least two to one."  Warhammer Armies, Orcs and Goblins, 1993, p. 70 (Fourth and Fifth Edition)

The outnumber bit is the fiddly part for Mordheim...

Elf charges Goblin - Goblin takes fear test (and fails!)
Elf fails to take out Goblin and Goblin fails to take out Elf.
Next round another Goblin charges the Elf - no need to take fear test, since they outnumber him 2-to-1.

I think I'll suggest that to the group, even though we rarely use Goblins

Von Kurst wrote:

And--"Dwarfs hate all Orcs, including Black Orcs and Savage Orcs, and all Goblins regardless of type." Warhammer Armies, Dwarfs 1993, p. 76. (Fourth and Fifth Edition)

But not Snotlings! ^_^

How can you hate such small cute creatures anyway?