Epic Mordheim

Hey guys,

Wanted to throw this one by you all. What do you think of the idea of Epic Mordheim? What I'm getting at is larger games of Mordheim, be it the cursed city, EiF, whatever. I love the idea of warbands, and I'm also a fan of Warhammer. So I thought of blending them together a little.

Basically, your warband can grow into a full-fledged company of soldiers before it eventually forms/joins an army.

Here's the basic premise of what I've come up with so far:

-Double warband maximum size. Everything is doubled! Heroes, henchmen, etc. A 03- henchman would be 0-6, a 0-1 spellcaster hero would be 0-2, Orc Mobs could be 40 warriors large, etc... Even your warband leader would be 1-2 now. One for your warband leader, the second would be your lieutenant (or monstrous equivalent of a second-in-command).

-Starting funds would be 750gold crowns (900gc for Marienburgs). I didn't want starting funds to double, as I don't want starting warbands to begin double the normal size, just have the possibility to grow beyond the norm.

-Thought of adding a Monster to each warband. Specific perhaps like a Griffon for Mercenaries, Wyvern for Orcs, etc... With larger groups of warriors, and more funds coming in, each warband could have a max of 1 monstrous creature to lay waste to larger number of troops.

-Jobs and duties. With more troops, you need paymaster, surgeon, cook, scout... the whole shebang. They wouldn't be new warriors, but rather small boosts you can add to existing warriors (heroes or henchmen) that add a little fluff/advantage/rank to your troops.

-Treasure exploration. The easiest way to do this, I thought, would be search parties. Basically, it works the same as exploration has already worked, but you divide your troops into two seperate search parties, each no greater then five heroes leading it.

-Magic items. With larger groups, more funds, perhaps being funded by generals and such, I wanted to add magic items as rewards. The way I see it, make available any Common Magic Item (from warhammer) able to be purchased by heroes. These would cost 5x their point cost in gold crowns and a warband may have only 1 of each type.

-Allies. Here's an idea I only touched on so far. Allies. With larger groups, you can have a certain number/percentage of your max size devoted to heroes and henchmen from other warbands of the same alliance - something like you may have 1 hero from another warband and as long as he is alive, you can have up to three henchmen from that same warband. This would be hard as so many warbands are more of a grey alignment then good / empire / evil / undead, whatever.

As your numbers can grow to twice their size, I thought of adding stuff like Musician, Standard Bearer, stuff to make it more like a company then a warband.

Obviously, scenarios and some existing rules would need to be tweaked and changed - but those details can be worked on later.

I've got some other ideas, but figured I wouldn't bombard you folks with them all right now (and I have to find the file on my computer). Just wanted to see what you folks thought of such an idea. Too much? Pointless? Good idea? Let me know, please.

I think youd have alot more fun using the warhammer skirmish rules and using experience charts for your heroes.

doing the rolling for all your characters would suck and would take forever.

Since Warhammer Skirmish is basically Mordheim without the campaign & warbands your points of view are not that far apart .
I agree that it would be a nightmare for everyone to gain XP, only think about a 40 strong warband after 7 games: How would you keep track of the different statlines, skills, equipment etc.?
If this is to work it would need to be simplified. Maybe make henchmen groups mandatory and limited in numbers (2 per henchmen type?) and keep the original number of heroes but allow more lads got talent advances (perhaps 8 heroes max?).
The monster / big guy idea seems workable if it does not gain XP.
The new items/ types like musician or standard bearer could be equipment for your heroes with effects in a certain radius, for example Bugle / Drum: Raises morale +1 in a 6 inch radius or Standard: allows you to reroll all 1´s in close combat in a 6 inch radius.

In short: Don´t make it too complicated or the game will bog down quickly.

Horatius wrote:

Since Warhammer Skirmish is basically Mordheim without the campaign & warbands your points of view are not that far apart .

The only thing stopping a campaign with warhammer skirmish is how much effort you are willing to put into a story. this is what I would do for fighting in cities

750pts of models selected from one army book with the following restrictions;

Must include 1 hero to lead the force. he may not cost more then 125pts.

at least 400pts must be spent on core

you may have 10 unit champions maximum.

at the end of each game, roll a dice for each model taken out of action. on a 1 or a 2 the model is killed permenantly

The leader of your force gains xp and takes rolls on the injury chart as per usual. give him skill charts you think he would have (its for fun, so dont be an ass about it).

If a model flees, it will flee to the nearest standard bearer. If there are no standard bearers within line of sight, the model will flee to his table edge.

all models within 12" of a musician recieve +1 to their leadership if they use their own leadership for the test (IE not the leaders)

An idea for WHFB in a Mordheim setting I've been toying with is the Warbands Rules [500 pt games] that appeared int he WD (American Edition) Sept.-Nov. '04 & Jan. 05. It's straight WHFB with advancement/skills for Heros level characters & unit upgrades. The Serious Injury rules are included. Although there are certain benefits to be gained from having somewhat larger units, the units are as small as 3 Infantry, or 1 Cavalryman/Large Creature (Ogres et al). If you include the Open Order rule from the Lustria Campaign, it works pretty well.

The ONLY limitation on the way the game is played is your imagination [I've got a fairly active, rather vivid one myself, although a bit on the strange side ].

DeafNala wrote:

[I've got a fairly active, rather vivid one myself, although a bit on the strage side ].

I think its best for the new people if we dont delve to far into that without them knowing what they are getting into

But deaf is right, these kind of things are only limited by your imagination, but you need to be careful, as over complication can make a great idea very very VERY boring.

Just a note: the word "epic" is a scale of miniature, so the thread title is a little confusing.

(ie:)

Thanks for the replies, folks. Yeah, not a big fan of Skirmish myself. Went through a phase where I had downloaded every scenario of GW's website and played a good few of them - some good ideas. But I just found they weren't in depth enough, like Mordheim. Though, granted, I can definitely see how a warband twice as large because a logistical nightmare - the numbers begin to bog down the actual game. Hmm, perhaps I need to work on this some more...

Thanks a lot and have a great day,

I think the easiest way to do this would be to simply raise the minimum model count in henchmen groups. So if henchmen were required to have say 5 models at the minimum there would be more models on the table without increasing the number of henchmen group statlines to remember.

As for heroes, well i think they should start out the same (imagine a possessed waband starting with 4 possessed!) but once you reach a threshhold of say 20 models (25 for skaven, 17 for maller warbands like witch hunters) you can start to buy one more of each type except the leader...

Oh and income, with more henchmen to replace you'd need more heroes for income... which invalidates the above papragraph...

All this is just off the top of my head.

actually...why not just use 1500 gold, double the model cap and double your hero allowance (besides leader)?

ANOTHER IDEA might be to use the Gangs of Mordheim rules/scenario from the Town Cryer #26. It's meant to be a "Big Battle" ala "Gangs of New York" for a campaign, but might lend itself to what you have in mind. BASICALLY it's a grouping of 3 to 6 Warbands under the overall leadership of a Horde Leader. The game SOUNDS like FUN & COULD be worth a try.

ohh gangs of new york was a great movie and i have not seen that scenario, but it sounds fun! Somethings about that movie struck me as very fantasy, the underground bar with tree roots hanging down, the jar of ears, the chick with claws... it was sort of reminiscent of the damned city now that i think about it

WELL NOW I've read through The Gangs of Mordheim SEVERAL times; considering the effect that rule & scenarios, even WELL written ones, have on moi [ ] THIS alone speaks voumes on the quality of the scenario [or NOT ]. I'm going to try it out as a solo thing JUST to see if it works; looks good though.

On the Standard & Musical Instrument thingy: the rules for the Shadow Warriors MIGHT work

Standard (75 + 3D6 gc / Rare 9):

• Any members of "the Horde" within 12" may re-roll any failed Leadership tests.
  
  Should the standard be captured by the enemy (model holding the standard is taken Out of Action) all members of "the Horde" will be subject to Hatred for the remainder of the game, and may not voluntarily Route.
  
  These effects do not affect Hired Swords.
  
  The model carrying the standard requires one free hand; no weapons, shields, etc. may be carried in this hand, & no double handed weapons may be used while the standard is being carried.
  
  The standard may be used as a makeshift spear with a -1 to hit.

War Horn/Drum/Whatever (25+1D6 gc/ Rare 6)
May be sounded ONCE per game. Until the start of the next turn all "horde" members (only) gain +1 Leadership (maximum of 10). May be sounded before "the Horde" takes a Route test.

I toyed with the idea of the following in WH skirmish;

Company standard;

If a model flees for any reason, it will flee to the banned instead of the table edge.

Company Horn/Drumm;

Any model within 12" has +1 added to their leadership if they are also within 12" of the general. This combines with the generals leadership (IE a model using a generals LD of 9 will have a LD of 10).