How do you guys start off your warbands in terms of XP?

I know the standard rule for heroes and leaders is that even though they start off with a certain amount of XP, you don't roll for any advancements in the beginning. For a example.. a Vampire leader starts with 20xp and I think if you mark that, you run across 8 dark boxes for advancements. Standard rules, you ignore those when you're first making the warband, but I know some people use a house rule to start all the heroes/leaders off with the advancement bonuses.

How do you guys usually play and what are your opinions on it? IN theory.. if every warband has their heroes/leaders advanced in the beginning.. it should balance out.. but at the same time I can see beginning troops being more useless against these heroes that already start off with stat increases. It really does make the first few games much more hero-centric. On the other hand, it definitely does add a little more flavor to your heroes since they start off a little more unique.

Whats your take? Did you guys find it too imbalanced to start characters off with advancements?

I've toyed with the idea of looking at how many experience point advances starting heroes and leaders have over their basic racial profile, knocking off the amount of statistic advances they have (additional WS, Ld or whatever) - counting things like leader or spellcaster as a skill advance - and then letting them roll for any "unused" advances. Never done it because it's a bit of work, some hero types don't have an obvious basic starting profile and you'd need to sell it to the rest of your players.

I made this intro for new options. Initially it was meant to get new warbands that are facing off against more veteran warbands without depending on getting stomped the first few games waiting on the Underdog Bonuses to kick in to make it worth playing. Then, this came to be used for starting off a new campaign with a little bit of flavor and personalization for your starting warbands. I call it, The Road to Mordheim...

Road to Mordheim

A set of rules for use to level up a starting warband, prior to joining an ongoing campaign. Any time a band member acquires enough experience (exp) for a level up, it should be rolled for at that point. The players of the campaign should try to ensure that a normal warband is selected before the use of these rules, to keep things balanced and fair. These rules are designed to allow a starting band to enter an ongoing campaign, allowing for some experience to be earned prior to the first battle, so they are not coming in cold and liable for a complete whipping as is often the case otherwise.

1 – Ambushed

Not long on the road, your warband is attacked by a group of ruffians. Follow the following list to find the consequences.

A – Roll a D6 for each figure in the warband. On a result of 1 they must roll on the appropriate Injury chart ( Heroes and Henchmen)
B – All surviving heroes and henchmen and hired swords gain 1 exp
C – Roll a D6 for each hero. On a 4+ they gain 1 exp.
D – The leader gains 1 exp for commanding the successful seeing off of the ruffians.

2 – Survivors

Your warband encounters a bedraggled couple of survivors from an ex warband. Add a new group of Henchmen to your roster. This may be any group you can use from your list. This group has 2 members. This group begins with 50gc you may spend arming them from your equipment list. Any left over money is wasted, and cannot be saved. The group has 3 exp to start, so you must roll a level up for them as well. You must reroll any Lads got talent result though, as they have only just joined the band and this will not be recognised as yet.

3 – Bodies

Your warband comes across a scene of utter carnage. The remains of two rival bands lie around the area, having taken each other down fighting. Roll on the following chart to see what you can find still of use in the area.

D3 swords = 4+
D3 bows = 4+
Suit of light armour = 2+
Suit of heavy armour = 5+
D3 helmets = 4+
Lucky charm = auto
30 + 2D6 gc = auto
D3 shards of wyrdstone = auto

4 – A Chance Encounter

Your band meets a mercenary for hire on the road to Mordheim. He offers you his services on route to Mordheim for your company and a few supplies. Roll on the following chart to see which hired sword you have encountered. If the hired sword rolled is not permitted in your band, roll again until you get one who is. Note that you will not have to pay any upkeep for this hired sword until after your first battle. So if you get one you don’t want, you can axe him from the team then.

1 – Halfling Scout.
2 – Pitfighter.
3 – Freelance Knight.
4 – Elven Ranger.
5 – Warlock.
6 – Dwarven Trollslayer.

5 – Mordheim Is Nigh

You have arrived at Mordheim, fairly unscathed for your adventures on the way there, though you have had some escapades on the way, allowing your warband to hone its skills a little. Complete the following to see what you have learnt on the way.

A – Add 1 exp to all heroes and henchmen and hired swords.
B – Roll a D6 for each Hero. On a 4+ they gain 1 exp.
C – Add 1 exp to the leader for successfully getting the band to Mordheim.

6 – Trading

You may trade any wyrdstone you have, and buy and sell any items or warriors you require as per the normal trading rules.

7 – To Battle and Riches

Good luck on the streets of Mordheim. You are going to need it…

I don't do the advancements to start. I've actually found that the most powerful heroes are the ones that start out at henchmen promoted via LGT. This might change if the heroes have bonus advances, but for the most part, I feel that the reason starting heroes have more emphasis is that they hold the potential to be great and powerful, and for every unstoppable heroic killing machine, there are literally hundreds of bodies in unmarked graves all around mordheim.
Don't know quite where I was going with this, but in the end, as long as all players agree to it, the main point is to have fun.

For sure, its all about fun. I'm just seeing the opinions of those out there more seasoned than me in Mordheim who have tried out different things. I played 2 games with my GF with the heroes counted as having advancements.. and the one thing that was painfully apparent was that my Vampire was way too powerful against her standard Saurus and Skinks. They had a hard time wounding him because I've already rolled up to a toughness of 6. Think we'll try again next time we play without advancements. We didn't count XP for that game since it was just testing out.

As a side question.. how many of you guys actually start your heroes at a blank slate. Meaning.. not actually marking 20 boxes for example at the start of the game even though most of them start with 20XP.. so that they level up differently and have more space to level up?

Us, we chose to give two advancements rolls for the leader and one for each hero that starts with experience.

However, I know that the vintage rule is to do not give any advance rolls.

gorenut wrote:

As a side question.. how many of you guys actually start your heroes at a blank slate. Meaning.. not actually marking 20 boxes for example at the start of the game even though most of them start with 20XP.. so that they level up differently and have more space to level up?

I do mark those boxes out. And isn't this the point this conversation circles around? Heroes, especially leaders, not being tough enough compared to LADs and Youngbloods in later games, due to the fewer advancements they get for the same amount of XP? If one did start with a blank slate, noone would probably feel the need to artificially power up elite-heroes and leaders by granding them extra advancement-rolls.

Grimscull wrote:

gorenut wrote:

As a side question.. how many of you guys actually start your heroes at a blank slate. Meaning.. not actually marking 20 boxes for example at the start of the game even though most of them start with 20XP.. so that they level up differently and have more space to level up?

I do mark those boxes out. And isn't this the point this conversation circles around? Heroes, especially leaders, not being tough enough compared to LADs and Youngbloods in later games, due to the fewer advancements they get for the same amount of XP? If one did start with a blank slate, noone would probably feel the need to artificially power up elite-heroes and leaders by granding them extra advancement-rolls.

Yea, I think we'll do house rules to just have all heroes start at a blank slate without any of the XP boxes checked. Think thats a fair compromise in making your characters actually feel stronger

The problem I see with blank slating them is that your giving a huge advantage to some warbands.
Like the Vampire who is already vary strong to start will gain a lot of advances vary fast as he can kill others faster then many other heroes and thus would end up gaining after just a few games (say 2) something like 3 or maybe 4 advances as he just walks threw the weaker models.

I think if your looking to make your heroes more powerful faster or rather more balanced to there starting Exp then the best way to do it is try to figure out how many advances they start with (use the races base stat line) and then remove starting exp down to what would constitute those advances (with "Leader" being an advance as well).
This would mean that say all humans use the Youngblood stats as there base line and a Merc cap has +2 WS, +2 BS, +1I, +2 LD, +Leader Skill.
Thus the Merc Cap starts with effectivly 8 advances and that means... yep 20 exp

The problem with doing this set up is things like Vampires become tricky as there is no YB equivalent for them or for a few other warbands too I'm sure (but can't think of).

You also have to take into consideration that the gold paid for the heroes is part of the balance as the Vampire is 110gc vs the merc Cap of 60gc.


I like PFT's idea on entering warbands late into a campaign. Something allong those lines is a big help as the "throw weak henchmen away to rout" isn't the most fun.

Pervavita wrote:

This would mean that say all humans use the Youngblood stats as there base line and a Merc cap has +2 WS, +2 BS, +1I, +2 LD, +Leader Skill.
Thus the Merc Cap starts with effectivly 8 advances and that means... yep 20 exp

Now if one of my Youngbloods rolled only one skill and no strength, wounds, toughness or attacks in the first couple of games, that would be one messed up hero ...

Pervavita is right here.,

Skavens/elves/dwarves too would get an advantage as their special skill are notably better than any other warband. Its a nightmare to think that a starting skaven leader gets 2-3 skills from his 7 rolls. or that dwarf leader rolls wounds, tougness & get resilient, master of blades and hard head from the start...

We'll stick to our own way I guess... Two free rolls for the leader and one for each other with XP.

As MOST warband starts with 1 leader and 1 or 2 heroes with XP, the balance tend to be respected....

Its fun and give your heroes ''personnality'' (helps to name them). I Once got a mercenary leader who got two skills and gave him a 2H weapon + Strongman & mighty blows.. He war Refered as Heindrich ''The brute''.

Ahh, I see.. so blank slate wouldn't work well with unique Leaders like Vampires have. Thanks for all the input guys. Its definitely saving me a lot of time getting tidbits from you seasoned vets so I don't have to waste a lot of trial and error time, haha.

Grimscull wrote:

Pervavita wrote:

This would mean that say all humans use the Youngblood stats as there base line and a Merc cap has +2 WS, +2 BS, +1I, +2 LD, +Leader Skill.
Thus the Merc Cap starts with effectivly 8 advances and that means... yep 20 exp

Now if one of my Youngbloods rolled only one skill and no strength, wounds, toughness or attacks in the first couple of games, that would be one messed up hero ...

I was not indicating that this is "perfect" but simply pointing out that you are getting advances and it's effectivly counted in. there are a few in there that quite easy you could and would want to live with out (BS 4 for a H2H hero is all but useless for example). But the advances are there and unless you want to house rule taking advances away from starting heroes and then roll them or something allong those lines it doesn't change that an advance is an advance even if you don't like it (for example in my current campaign I have many henchmen who got Leadership as an advance. I'm not happy about it but it's what I got first).
I see the Leader as your strongest hero to start but can and will be passed up by other heroes latter on.
Oh and you could compensate if you like for your own peace of mind that the Leader has more skill options to make up for the lack of stat choices for there experiance.

Pervavita wrote:

Grimscull wrote:

Pervavita wrote:

This would mean that say all humans use the Youngblood stats as there base line and a Merc cap has +2 WS, +2 BS, +1I, +2 LD, +Leader Skill.
Thus the Merc Cap starts with effectivly 8 advances and that means... yep 20 exp

Now if one of my Youngbloods rolled only one skill and no strength, wounds, toughness or attacks in the first couple of games, that would be one messed up hero ...

I was not indicating that this is "perfect" but simply pointing out that you are getting advances and it's effectivly counted in. there are a few in there that quite easy you could and would want to live with out (BS 4 for a H2H hero is all but useless for example). But the advances are there and unless you want to house rule taking advances away from starting heroes and then roll them or something allong those lines it doesn't change that an advance is an advance even if you don't like it (for example in my current campaign I have many henchmen who got Leadership as an advance. I'm not happy about it but it's what I got first).
I see the Leader as your strongest hero to start but can and will be passed up by other heroes latter on.
Oh and you could compensate if you like for your own peace of mind that the Leader has more skill options to make up for the lack of stat choices for there experiance.

That actually makes plenty of sense.. especially considering that Dregs have such poor stats and start with 0 XP, hahaa.. I guess they at least have that as an "advantage"

True again.

I looked at this a while a go and as the ''standart'' warband, the merc have all their xp counted (excep middeheimer that got an edge with their +1S).

The same is true with skavens.

The game has many flaws but I dont think that starting XP is one of them. Indeed it's one of the most balanced aspect of the game.

Harder to teach new tricks to an old ape....


( I'dont know if this proverb exists in english as it is a French proverb but I remeber seeing something like this somewhere

: On apprend pas à un vieux singe à faire la grimace).

Goglutin wrote:

Harder to teach new tricks to an old ape....


( I'dont know if this proverb exists in english as it is a French proverb but I remeber seeing something like this somewhere

: On apprend pas à un vieux singe à faire la grimace).

In English it's
Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Thx Perv... I'm beginnig to think to marry you ... seeing how many answers you give to my stupid questions !! LOL

Goglutin wrote:

Thx Perv... I'm beginnig to think to marry you ... seeing how many answers you give to my stupid questions !! LOL

Haha.. sorry, but that sentence is golden... especially calling him Perv. I know you were just short-handing his name but I immediately thought "pervert"

This was a delibarated choice

ya I get that now and again and don't mind shortaning my screen name in the least but if you can toss the "a" on the end for Perva. it clears it up some

Jerk

Anyway... it fits your Greek warrior avatar .. they were all gay pervert... lol