More questions

Some more questions to help us with our ongoing quest to get smarter...

1) Shooting at opponents on the ground. I realise I have to roll to hit and wound as normal, but say I shoot at a stunned model (case in question, he was the only model I could see), if I hit and wound do I ignore anything but a 5 or 6 (OOA) or is a he automatically OOA if I hit him when he is already stunned or KD'd?

2) If after modifications (firer has moved, target in cover etc.) a model needs 7 or higher to hit the enemy, can he simply not shoot or can he try, and hit on a natural 6 only?

3) Can you hide during deployment? For example we played breakthrough, I was the defender, I deployed first, and my opponent allowed me to hide, which meant he couldn't deploy and shoot me with 10 bows before I had moved. This did mean however, that I could then pop up/out and shoot at him in my turn, though obviously then he could shoot back. Just after clarification as that difference could mean a lot (and did).

4) Opponent just got the Zzap! spell (he's Night Gobs btw). Looks nasty. It reads to me like he doesn't need to roll to hit, if he makes the diff roll, he just rolls d3 for the number of wounds, rolls to wound for each with STR 4 against my toughness and then rolls for injury for each successful wound. Have I got it right or is it better or worse than this? No armour save applies, and I am guessing I can't "step aside" but could I "dodge" for example if I had that skill?

5) That reminded me of another question. For spells like Clubba and Ledz' Go... Can he cast Clubba to summon a magic club then next round cast Ledz' Go for example? I was thinking he had done his spell and summoned the club, so he would be able to cast something else next turn. But actually in the book it says for both spells they end on a wound or KD, so maybe you can only concentrate on one spell at a time? This will obviously affect my caster as well, just trying to get the rules right...

Cheers in advance, feel free to chip in with advice even if you can't answer all five definitively!

1) If shooting at a knocked down or stunned model for each successful hit and wound roll for injury as normal, apply the highest result. There are no automatic OOA for wound knocked down or stunned models with shooting like there is for hand-to-hand combat, and no cumulative effects for stunning or knocking down a model multiple times. A knocked down model that is knocked down remains knocked down. A knocked down model that is stunned just becomes stunned, and you can't get more stunned than stunned, unless you roll OOA.

For 2) In Mordheim I don't think there are special provisions for hitting when a 7 or more is required. If you want to play strictly by the rules I would say the shot cannot hit, but if your group is willing there are rules for this situation in other games workshop systems. In Necromunda, to hit a enemy when a seven is required, the model has to roll a 6 first, and the roll a second time with a 4+ on the second rolling meaning the shot hits. For a shot that requires 8 to hit the second roll must be a 5+ to succeed, and if a 9 is required then a second 6 must be rolled. Shots that require a 10 to hit do automatically fail.

For 3) I don't think there is another in the rulebook specifically about hiding during deployment, you'd have to house rule it, but it seems very reasonable to do so. I've been in that situation where one player has to deploy in the middle that they are in range of shooting by enemies that haven't even moved. It was a little annoying, but you might think of it as the enemy attacking suddenly so there was no time to hide. If you wanted, you could do some kind of roll the successfully anticipate the attack and allow models to hide.

For 4) yeah you got it, that spell has some bite. Spells don't roll to hit like shooting does unless they specifically say so. Step aside and dodge only apply to attacks made in hand-to-hand and shooting, respectively, so they do not apply to spells.

For 5), as long as it doesn't say it lasts "until the caster attempts to cast another spell" I would think he could cast another spell without it being dispelled.

I will second what hero said.

For #2, 6th edition Warhammer uses the 7+ system as well. We have house ruled it for so long that no one really remembers the actual rules.

3--since you hide during the Movement portion of the turn you can not start hidden without a house rule. I am a bit lost as to why the Defender set up first in a Breakthrough? My rule book says the Attacker sets up first and moves first.

4--Spells are different than shooting unless the description says otherwise.

5--More than one spell may be in play at one time from the same caster in Mordheim.

Thank you.

#1 That was how we played it so that's good!
#2 Maybe we will house rule that then, we will have a chat.
#3 Sorry my bad, he did set up first as I had to measure to make sure I was too close to him. Again I will chat to my oppo about ruling one way or the other for hiding during deployment, so at least it's fair.
#4, #5 Thanks for clarification. Yeah it will have some extra bite too, as his Goblin Shaman got the multiple wounds after last weeks OOA and now although blind in one eye and with a leg shorter than the other (half movement when not charging) and I think a gammy arm, he has Fear and Frenzy, which combined with his magic club (S+2) is going to sting a bit!

In fact, how many attacks would the above shaman get while Frenzied? Assuming his base attacks were 1 (I think thats right) if he gets his club out before combat thats +1, then doubled = 4 plus another attack if he has a dagger (or another club) in his offhand. So 4 x S+2 plus a possible 5th attack with a 'normal' strength, yikes! I hope he isn't one of the goblins that already has +1 attack or he's doing 6 x S+2 plus another...? Or am I adding them up wrong?

Thanks a lot for taking the time hero and Von Kurst!

When in frenzy, the only thing that's doubled is the base amount of attacks, IE the number of attacks that's in the statline, not extra attacks that come from extra weapons, skills (unless noted in the skill), spells (again, unless noted in the spell description). Still, frenzy on a model with many attacks can be a mutha...