New Fluffy Mordheim warband: Order of the Hammers of Sigmar

So all of a sudden I got inspired reading the Knightly Orders Article on the GW website because this order specifically mentioned mordheim. It is sort of cross between the Mercenary and witch hunter lists with some silly fluffy special rules (all restrictions). Let me know what you think:

Order of the Hammers of Sigmar warband

Max Warband Size: 15

Fluff:

The Order of the Hammer of Sigmar was founded in Altdorf shortly after the news of the destruction of Mordheim reached the city. Zealous Lectors of Sigmar encouraged the devout sons of local nobles to join the fledgling Order. Once assembled, the Lectors sent the Order into the ruins of Mordheim to restore order and keep the faith (and the faithful) alive throughout the turmoil. These bands of pious knights often attracted various followers ranging from religious fanatics to the particularly devout marksmen of Altdorf.

Special Rules:

Knightly Order:
Only nobles may belong to a knightly order therefore any result of That Lads Got Talent from the Henchmen advancement table is re-rolled. Commoners would never be allowed to join the ranks of such a hallowed and prestigious order. If a henchman band gains all of the advances it can excluding That Lads Got Talent it no longer gains any experience.

Hammers of Sigmar:
Heroes of the Order of the Hammers of Sigmar must purchase as their first weapon some form of hammer (hammer, sigmarite warhammer or double hannded hammer). Only after the hero has purchased a hammer may he choose to purchase another HtH weapon such as an Axe or Sword.

Skill Table
Knights Templar Captain: Combat, Shooting, Academic, Strength, Speed
Knights Templar: Combat, Shooting, Strength, Speed
Templar Lector: Combat, Academic, Strength
Templar Squires: Combat, Shooting, Strength, Speed

Skills: The weapons expert and weapons training skills may not be taken by Order of the Hammers of Sigmar heroes. The weapons they wield are those blessed by Sigmar; to wield other weapons would approach blasphemy. The only exception to this is that they may wield lances if mounted rules are being used and all Heroes are capable of riding warshorses.

Heroes:

Knights Templar Captain 60 pts
M 4
WS 4
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 4
A 1
Ld 8

Weapons/armor: may select from Knight equipment list

Special rules: leader

0-2 Knights Templar 35 points
M 4
WS 4
BS 3
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 7

Weapons/armor: may select from Knight equipment list

0-1 Templar Lector 40 points
M 4
WS 3
BS 3
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 8

weapons/armor: may select from Knight equipment list

prayers: uses prayers of sigmar

0-2 Templar Squires 20 points
M 4
WS 2
BS 2
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 7

weapons/armor: may select from the Knight equipment list

Henchmen:

0-5 Flagellants
M 4
WS 3
BS 3
S 4
T 4
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 10

weapons/armor: may select from Flagellant equipment list

Zealots 20 points
M 4
WS 2
BS 2
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 7

weapons/armor: may select from Zealots equipment list

0-5 Altdorf Marksmen 30 points
M 4
WS 3
BS 4
S 3
T 3
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 7

Weapons/armor: may select from Marksmen equipment list

Knight equipment list:

HtH weapons:
Dagger...................1st free/2 gc
Hammer...................3 gc
Axe......................5 gc
Sword....................10 gc
Double-handed hammer.....15 gc
Sigmarite warhammer......15 gc

Missile weapons:
Duelling pistol..........25 gc (50 for a brace)

Armour:
Light Armor..............20 gc
Heavy Armor..............50 gc
Shield...................5 gc
Helmet...................10 gc

Flaggelant Equipment list:

HtH weapons:
Flail....................15 gc
Morning star.............15 gc
Double handed weapon.....15 gc

Zealot Equipment list:

HtH weapons:
Dagger...................1st free/2 gc
Hammer...................3 gc
Axe......................5 gc
Sword....................10 gc
Double handed weapon.....15 gc
Spear....................10 gc

Missile Weapons:
Bow......................10 gc
Short bow................5 gc

Armour:
Light Armor..............20 gc
Shield...................5 gc
Helmet...................10 gc

Marksmen equipment list:

HtH Weapons:
Dagger...................1st free/2 gc
Hammer...................3 gc
Axe......................5 gc
Sword....................10 gc

Missile Weapons:
Pistol...................15 gc (30 for a brace)
Bow......................10 gc
Long bow.................15 gc
Crossbow.................25 gc
Blunderbuss..............30 gc
Handgun..................35 gc

Armour:
Light Armor..............20 gc
Shield...................5 gc
Helmet...................10 gc

I looked at it quickly, and it looks nice. I'm not sure about the names though, as Inquisitors are also called Knights Templar. And do they start with 6 heroes?

I really neat idea, but I have a few thoughts:

1. At the moment, you have the warband start with 6 heroes. For most human warbands, that's one too many. This could be, of course, a way of offsetting the 'no TLGT', but even so, I wouldn't advise it. I suggest having the Lector replace one of the Knights Templar.

2. The Marksmen are pretty severe. Everyone says mercenaries are the most balanced warband, but in truth, they have the best arsenal of shooting equipment available to their marksmen... and the fact that you made them BS4 pushes this even more so. If you want the emphasis of the warband to be on the knights, consider making them 25gc BS3, and/or restricting a few of the rarer items, like blunderbusses.

3. Too many skill lists. Normally Champions and Squires have only 3 skills options each. I recommend removing the Shooting (let them skill have access to Dueling Pistols, of course.) This also prevents a player from giving all of his heroes Weapons Training and turning the warband into a shooter's dream.

4 Having No TLGT is pretty harsh. Here's one thing I will be trying with the 'Bretonnian Warband' we're adding to the Athel Loren campaign: you have three henchmen groups; Flaggelants, Zealots, and Squires. The first two are peasants, and cannot get TLGT. The third group, the Squires, is limited in number 0-5, but have access to hth and missiles (fewer than the marksmen, though.) If he gets promoted to a hero, he has to buy a hammer and (buy your discretion) limit the kinds of shooting weapons he can use.

5. Just a thought: I think putting a Warhorse on the list at the start-up would not be uncalled for. Maybe I'm misreading them, but I think it would be fluffy indeed.


Hope that helped! Good luck with them!

[sarcasm]Oh, no, forced to take hammers. What ever shall we do?[/sarcasm]

At least this band has a fluffy reason every model is armed with a hammer/club/mace

Cool.
I haven't really looked at historical templar orders but from other Warhammer orders a title for your leader could be Seneschal or Preceptor.

The fact that witch hunters are also Templars is not of particular concern since all members of an Order are so named whatever their order or respective temple.

The Ballistic Skill 4 thing is reasonable since they are Reiklanders.

The plethora of skill lists is not fluffy with Knights, who should in fact have their maximum Ballistic Skill reduced to reflect their disinterest in such weapons. (This would also separate them from Witch Hunters.)

I vote no to the 6 heroes thing as well. Squires are a good choice for a LGT as well as a Man-At-Arms or Sergeant class representing men who had not taken the oath of a Templar but still served the Temple as a well equipped and trained warrior.

Horses and Warhorses as starting equipment (perhaps at a discount) are a must.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I will have a some detailed changes and responses posted in a bit but am kind of busy at the moment. Didn't want you guys to think I was ignoring the thread.

I'll be the mean critic .

To my eyes, it smells too strong. Its got the good shooting of Reiklanders AND the good close combat of Flagellents. The equipment options are average plus Sigmarite warhammer! And the only big weakness is no TLGT, which is nicely offset by 6 starting heroes.

BUT the idea is pretty cool.

I would start with the basics of a Reiklander warband. Just as is.

Then I'd check out TownCryer 8 (http://www.tabletopgeeks.com/downloads/) and the Priest of Ulric rules and adapt them for a Sigmarite priest--basically swapping a champion for a Warrior-Priest straight from the Mordheim rule book, same cost, same rules, same equipment list. Then playtest it out.

Keep it simple and people will be more likely to want to play against it. That's my opinion at least.

Ok so here is a sort of half response:

I agree with removing shooting from the skill list it was too much. In my defense this list was written in about half an hour with me sleep deprived and a tad drunk.

While I agree perhaps the 6 purchasable heroes is pretty powerful I have to say it was envisioned as part of the fluff. The heroes are part of the knightly order, the henchmen are the rabble followers. Its this kind of social hierarchy thing, only those of noble birth can be heroes within the order. would it be more acceptable if I changed the knight templars to a 0-1 choice and the squires to 0-3? of course that would just make the heroes cheaper and probably have the opposite effect (making it easier to afford 6 heroes starting out).

I am still thinking about this and do appreciate the feedback I think I am just being a little obstinate but not out of powergaming/beardiness/cheesiness. I want it to feel a little different. Still I might be coming around. I am going to sleep on it.

As someone pointed out the reason the marksmen are BS4 is because they are from Altdorf which makes them reiklanders. For the article about this particular order I would like to direct you to http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=cat210010&section=&pIndex=14&aId=300007&start=15. It has a little blurb about the order that inspired this warband. Once again it was influenced by a wee too much beer and lack of sleep.

More thoughts later....

Hmm. Well, if you wanted a warband that played differently, six heroes and strong henchmen that can't get TLGT is definitely a break from the usual. They'd be a bit like Undead, in that they're really strong out of the gate, but later campaigning would get more difficult. That's my best estimate if you use them as is. Could be worth a shot, if your group agrees.

I do aree with perfesser, the warband seems to be a little bit too strong. Since i also feel that the flagellants don´t fit into a knightly order theme ( i feel they are more likely to stick to witchhunters, restoring order just isn´t their thing, they are doomseekers after all) i suggest removing them and substituting a type of order footman (like all the historic knightly orders had).
And per the current rules a warband can´t replace a fallen leader (except for the undead), so without TLGT you might end up with only 5 heroes. Maybe you should add a rule to cover that.

Six heroes are a bit much, go with Battle Pilgrims instead of flaggies.

You should identify what their weakness is and make sure that is coming through in the rules.