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 Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ

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Tiggurix



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PostSubject: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Mon 24 Nov 2014 - 13:01

So, first of all, I'll reveal that I'm a great casual fan of the humble sling, one of the most important weapons the Classical era of the Mediterranean. Contrary to its representation in games of all kinds, the sling is a difficult weapon to learn and master, but with great range and force in capable hands. Indeed, according to this article, the sling should have a range more akin to 30" than 18", if compared with the bows in this game.

In any case, as a fan of the sling, I might want to create a dedicated slinger hero someday. However, outside of the use of poisons, which work just as well, if not better, with bows, there's little reason to create a dedicated slinger, with the exception of the intriguing Quickshot/half range combo. However, you're probably all well aware that this combo was dismissed in the Ultimate FAQ:
Mordheim Ultimate FAQ wrote:
Q: The Quick Shot skill allows a model to fire twice per turn. Can a model armed with
a sling and having the Quick Shot skill then fire four shots if they are less than half
range?
A: No -the spec. rule and the skill do the same thing. They both change A into B,
doing the same thing -end result is the same. No doubling doubles!

However, my problem with this ruling is that, they already have an example in the Main Rulebook of, not doubling doubles, but tripling doubles, i.e. Johann the Knife. And since the half-range shooting and Quickshot don't actually do the same exact thing anyways, as the half-range shooting imposes a -1 shooting penalty on the shots, I'd say that, if not for this FAQ, the book would have allowed the Sling (and Repeater Crossbow) to be combined with Quickshot.

Of course, if I wanted my playgroup to allow this, it would, of course, be a house rule, but how comfortable would you guys be with such a house rule?
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RationalLemming
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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Mon 24 Nov 2014 - 13:30

I would not be comfortable at all. Johan the Knife has a special rule that overrides the default rule. Special rules sometimes do this to create interesting characters. However, the overriding is done by a special rule deliberately so as not to break the default rule.

If you wanted to create a dedicated slinger Hero then I would suggest introducing one or more new Shooting skills as house rules rather than changing the default rules. Therefore you can give your Hero the Quick Shot skill and then give your Hero your new, house ruled Slinger Extraordinaire skill. I'd probably be comfortable with this.
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Tiggurix



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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Mon 24 Nov 2014 - 13:37

RationalLemming wrote:
I would not be comfortable at all. Johan the Knife has a special rule that overrides the default rule. Special rules sometimes do this to create interesting characters. However, the overriding is done by a special rule deliberately so as not to break the default rule.

Well, to be fair, the over-riding that is done by Johann the Knife is on the rule that Quick Shot and Knife Fighter can't be used together, which is a specific rule for the skills. A "weapon property" is an entirely other thing than a skill, though, and besides, I personally believe that regular characters should aspire to at least come close to Dramatis Personae in power and uniqueness. However, I can see your point, and respect it.
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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Mon 24 Nov 2014 - 13:58

Agree with RL, this is a special character and not a good precedent for a warrior to combine the rules. I see throwing knives in the hands of a unique expert much different than any of the other missile weapons that require ammunition loaded.

I have always felt sling range was short but when compared to the bow ranges in Mordheim I believe it is balanced. The common play size is a 4x4 ft table and barring position and cover you can reach most areas of a battle with a well placed sniper. If slings had the range of a bow at 1/5the the cost plus a special fire twice rule, the skies would be darkened with sling stones.

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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Mon 24 Nov 2014 - 14:22

In our group we allow quick shot to fire another shot at full range with the sling if you haven't moved.
(i believe it was errata-ed to just bows and crossbows),
As for range 18" is much better than 12" from the short bow, the extreme distances sling bullets could achieve (around 400 meters or so) were made at a very high trajectory and would be used at legions or armies rather than individuals.
If you want to make a sling hero with amazing range get that hero "eagle eyes" skill +6" And a telescope + 1"-6" bringing the range up to 25"-30"

for slings and repeating crossbows in my campaign i added the following skills rather than allowing quick shot

Rapid Shot: You may fire up to three times with a repeating crossbow with an additional -1 to hit for each shot after the first on all shots.
They are the machine gun of crossbows, so 3 shots at -2 to hit.

Sling Star: You may re-roll a critical result when using a sling.
The difference in under arm or over arm or even a sideways punt will make the stone react differently
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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Mon 24 Nov 2014 - 17:54

I will always argue against nerfing the sling which is the overriding preference on this forum. But that's about as far as I am willing to go.

@Phantasmal_fiend--Short bow is 16" not 12".
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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Mon 24 Nov 2014 - 19:19

Von Kurst wrote:
I will always argue against nerfing the sling which is the overriding preference on this forum.  But that's about as far as I am willing to go.

Well, according to what I've picked up, slings are only really powerful in the beginning of a campaign. Later in the life-span of a campaign, warriors become tougher and tougher, and there are more powerful weapons to replace it anyways, so I don't think that a machine-gun slinger would be way too powerful, though I can understand the wish to restrict it with an extra skill.
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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Tue 25 Nov 2014 - 6:54

In my group we allow Quickshot to add +1 shot if you don't move. This allows us to stack it with assorted multishot weapons without it detracting from the fun in the game.

We increased the late-game desirability of slings for heroes by allowing slings to use special ammunition. Specifically, we allow slings to deliver Blessed Water, Dwarven Firebombs, Flashpowder, and Fire Pots*. Special ammunition is at an additional -1 to hit and cannot be fired more than once per turn and only one type of special ammunition at a time.


*Relics of the Crusade item.
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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Tue 25 Nov 2014 - 13:42

Lord 0 wrote:
In my group we allow Quickshot to add +1 shot if you don't move. This allows us to stack it with assorted multishot weapons without it detracting from the fun in the game.

We increased the late-game desirability of slings for heroes by allowing slings to use special ammunition. Specifically, we allow slings to deliver Blessed Water, Dwarven Firebombs, Flashpowder, and Fire Pots*. Special ammunition is at an additional -1 to hit and cannot be fired more than once per turn and only one type of special ammunition at a time.


*Relics of the Crusade item.

I really like the idea of slinging blessed water. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Tue 25 Nov 2014 - 17:09

Phantasmal_fiend wrote:
Lord 0 wrote:
In my group we allow Quickshot to add +1 shot if you don't move. This allows us to stack it with assorted multishot weapons without it detracting from the fun in the game.

We increased the late-game desirability of slings for heroes by allowing slings to use special ammunition. Specifically, we allow slings to deliver Blessed Water, Dwarven Firebombs, Flashpowder, and Fire Pots*. Special ammunition is at an additional -1 to hit and cannot be fired more than once per turn and only one type of special ammunition at a time.


*Relics of the Crusade item.

I really like the idea of slinging blessed water. Very Happy

I second that. What a nice way to buff Slings!
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PostSubject: Re: Quickshot and Sling and the FAQ   Today at 6:15

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