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 Sling and skaven house rules

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blindrage19
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PostSubject: Sling and skaven house rules   Thu 13 May 2010 - 19:36

We are starting a campaign and are implementing some changes to slings and skaven to balance them out. what do you think?

Slings 5g instead of 2g
Fire twice at half range
in addition:

Eagle eye is not allowed
+1 to armor save at long range and if you choose to fire twice at half range. ( may fire one shot at half range with no penalty)

Skaven changes :
Night runners 15g
vermkin are now 25g
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Opheliate
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Thu 13 May 2010 - 22:54

Sounds good to me, even though I am one of few who have never had any problems with the sling in the first place Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Fri 14 May 2010 - 5:30

Actually, I'm with Opheliate - played with/against a lot of skaven and Sisters warbands, and don't consider the sling broken as it is.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Fri 14 May 2010 - 6:06

i dont feel its broken more so that it doesnt make sence. I understand why it only costs 2g because slings are cheap but there isnt any reason why it should be as good as a 5gc (sometimes 10gc) short bow. Plus realisticly a slings rock thrown wouldnt hit as hard if throw from far away nor would it if it was thrown half assed twice in a row at close range.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Fri 14 May 2010 - 7:51

How about giving sling S2?
It makes sence that an arrow would hurt a lot more than a sling
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Fri 14 May 2010 - 7:55

I'd go with lower/less Strenght
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Fri 14 May 2010 - 16:24

I'm with some of the others that don't think the sling needs changing.
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Mon 17 May 2010 - 1:31

Something people seem to be forgetting is that the sling was a feared weapon of war to the point that back in the day they would build whole fortresses around sling use. The sling is *not* an inferior weapon to the bow.

A bow has more range, and is easier to learn how to use. It does not hit any less harder, and it costs more to make.

I have both used slingers in Mordheim and had them used against me. They are fine as they are.

Of curiosity, what are the changes to the Skaven prices intended to achieve?
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Mon 17 May 2010 - 8:06

I agree about the sling being pretty scary (I read so on wikipedia Razz) but it's hard to represent the difficulty of training to use a sling in game, I'd just use increased price. I don't understand what about slings justifies the multiple shots thing, but I'd guess it's mostly for gameplay.

I don't know what they're meant to achieve but they seem more appropriate considering skaven have much better stats than humans and normally cost less.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Mon 17 May 2010 - 8:13

Well, yes, he obviously thinks they are more appropriate or he wouldn't have done the change. The thing is, more appropriate to what objective? Were people buying too many Verminkin? Too few Nightrunners? I was just wondering.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Mon 17 May 2010 - 12:45

Huh, I didn't realize that nightrunners normally cost more than youngbloods. The more I learn about this game the crazier it gets.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Mon 17 May 2010 - 13:32

I have only see slings come into place twice.

Once it was because the Skaven were fighting models with fear. Since Skaven have such low leadership they would use the slings instead of charging.

The other time Dwarves were hiding-up high and shotting all over the board, so the skaven got up as close as they could and started shooting at him. Between 8 to 12 shots, the Dwarf hand good armor, and I think he only got knocked-down.

I think Slings are good and any hord warband using multiple attackers they can use the numbers to their advantage, but I don't think it is broken, a litte under costed, but not over powered.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Mon 17 May 2010 - 20:25

the people im playing with found skaven a little over powered and too feel for the stat diffrences between a human warrior and a vermkin they should be atleast priced the same. With the slings ive playd against them and with them and feel they are mostly fine. but seeing as in my group im the only one whos had any mordheim experience and this helps even it out a bit since ill be playing skaven. As well feel for 2gcs slings should be slightly inferior to short bows.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Mon 17 May 2010 - 21:07

blind, where are you getting this stat info from? Stats are comparable.

You can really not compare any one choice from warband to warband. The whole list has to be considered along with support. How many DP and HS do Skaven get? Almost none. Humans have access to VERY cheap gear with the aid of a Merchant. This is just one example.
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blindrage19
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Tue 18 May 2010 - 7:24

in our campaign there is a limit on HS and a upkeep increase so this changes things drastically
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Tue 18 May 2010 - 8:22

Not in a good way it seems. Why not eliminate that rather than go back and mess with rats?
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Tue 18 May 2010 - 16:30

Von Kurst wrote:
Not in a good way it seems. Why not eliminate that rather than go back and mess with rats?

Obviously. When people tweak rules systems piece by piece without thinking of the whole picture, loopholes and side-effects happen. Personally, I have found no imbalance in the game that strategy can't take care of.
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blindrage19
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Tue 18 May 2010 - 21:42

there is a reason behind the tweaking of our hs and dp. the stting for our campaign is set further down the line but still in mordheim wyrdstones are more scarce as wel as the amount of hired swords. only a few we are playing with likes hired swords.

We are making it more of a story based thing rather then anything else since our campaign is story heavy.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Tue 18 May 2010 - 21:51

I think that you should go ahead with your plan and report how it went. There seem to be too many variables for any commentary to be useful.

Good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Wed 19 May 2010 - 5:25

Agreed. A specific campaign setting is different. Let us know how it goes.
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Lord 0
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Wed 19 May 2010 - 7:26

blindrage19 wrote:
[We] feel for 2gcs slings should be slightly inferior to short bows.
Slings *are* slightly inferior to short bows. Slings can't use Hunting Arrows and can't use Quickshot. All they get is 2" extra range and a poor man's Quickshot that only works at half range and incurs an additional -1.
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Wed 19 May 2010 - 8:03

Lord0: I totally agree there. Leave the slings be Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Wed 19 May 2010 - 15:04

I dont think slings are broken either.

You really need to look at the context of the weapon, especially in regards to the warbands that can use them. If I had a warband with slings and bows on my equipment list I would pick a bow anyday.

For Skaven slings are one of the only ranged weapons that they can get on their initial starting list that has any type of range to it. Additionally you aren't going to see many skaven heros using slings over their other options as they would more than likely want to get in close.

Which of course means you really wouldn't have to worry about those pesky shooting skills as henchmen aren't going to get them, unless you mange to get a hero that takes Weapons expert for Bow, and then decides to specialize in sniper type skills .....

Skaven hero with Weapons Expert bow, hunter, eagle eye, scale sheer surfaces .../shudder ...

But of course any hero could really go that route...so like I said. Dont think slings are broken.

But house rules are house rules, and whatever makes the game fun for you and your group should be the end results.

Personally my group has a bigger problem with spears and first strike..../sigh
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Wed 19 May 2010 - 16:02

HornedRat wrote:
I dont think slings are broken either.

Additionally you aren't going to see many skaven heros using slings over their other options as they would more than likely want to get in close.

ie. Fighting Claws
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PostSubject: Re: Sling and skaven house rules   Wed 19 May 2010 - 17:00

SiliconSicilian wrote:
HornedRat wrote:
I dont think slings are broken either.

Additionally you aren't going to see many skaven heros using slings over their other options as they would more than likely want to get in close.

ie. Fighting Claws

Weeping Blades ...
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