| Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol | |
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+4TheEnemyWithin Lord 0 Stronzo Benkei 8 posters |
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Benkei Youngblood
Posts : 12 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2010-03-23
| Subject: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 9:05 | |
| Another question for you guys:
- Dark Venom gives +1 S to the weapon coated in it... it is only for CC weapons? as the Imperial Assassin has all his weapons coated in venom, does that include his throwing knives and crossbow pistol? i assume it does, as poisoned bolts are not a stretch | |
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Stronzo Warlord
Posts : 241 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-03-22 Age : 40 Location : Denmark
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Beastmen (EIF) Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 9:36 | |
| poison can't be added to black powder weapons. It says nowhere that you cant poison bolts and arrows | |
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Lord 0 Venerable Ancient
Posts : 927 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2010-02-13 Location : Friendship, New York
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 9:37 | |
| In my circle we allow ranged weapons that aren't black-powder to be poisoned. I couldn't tell you how much of that is real rule and how much is house-rule though. | |
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TheEnemyWithin Veteran
Posts : 114 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-02-10 Location : Dundee
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Beastmen (EIF) Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 10:35 | |
| - Stronzo wrote:
- poison can't be added to black powder weapons. It says nowhere that you cant poison bolts and arrows
...Really? Oh god! I have been playing since the game's release and never thought to do this! Poisoned crossbows?...My witch hunter warband just got more interesting xD | |
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Stronzo Warlord
Posts : 241 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-03-22 Age : 40 Location : Denmark
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Beastmen (EIF) Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 11:08 | |
| Uhm... Witch Hunters cant buy poison :/ sadly. | |
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TheEnemyWithin Veteran
Posts : 114 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-02-10 Location : Dundee
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Beastmen (EIF) Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 11:46 | |
| - Stronzo wrote:
- Uhm... Witch Hunters cant buy poison :/ sadly.
Oh yeah...ah well the dream was short lived xD Need to get some "Holy Bolts" or something since it always bugged me that there was no way of upgrading a crossbow for witch hunter heroes...not that they desperately need it ofc but it would be nice none the less ^^ -shrug- | |
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catachanfrog Elder
Posts : 319 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2011-07-08
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 11:49 | |
| - Quote :
- In my circle we allow ranged weapons that aren't black-powder to be poisoned. I couldn't tell you how much of that is real rule and how much is house-rule though.
It's rulebook legal. - Quote :
- Uhm... Witch Hunters cant buy poison :/ sadly.
Yes, they can. They just need zealot/flagellant hero - they are not restricted at buing piosons. Witch huters and warrior priest are not allowed to BUY poisons - however rulebook or their warband rules doesn't state that they CAN'T use it (like shadow warriors). | |
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Grimscull Etheral
Posts : 1649 Trading Reputation : 2 Join date : 2010-11-22
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 13:04 | |
| Actually, it says it is not available to them, pg. 104: - Quote :
- Not available to Witch Hunters, Warrior-Priests or
Sisters of Sigmar. Now there is good argueing about what "available" means. The same way, blessed water "May not be bought by Undead". By your logic, ghoul heroes and necroes could buy the stuff and the vampire could then use it... | |
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Stronzo Warlord
Posts : 241 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-03-22 Age : 40 Location : Denmark
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Beastmen (EIF) Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 13:30 | |
| Uhm... Are we sure we wanna go there? | |
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catachanfrog Elder
Posts : 319 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2011-07-08
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 15:01 | |
| - Quote :
- Now there is good argueing about what "available" means. The same way, blessed water "May not be bought by Undead". By your logic, ghoul heroes and necroes could buy the stuff and the vampire could then use it...
It is legal to do. Of course your example is extreme but blame rules not me. At least poison using witch hunters are background acceptable (if not true to their background). | |
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shotguncoffee Warlord
Posts : 277 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2010-04-17 Location : England
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 16:20 | |
| the rulebook is full of holes like this | |
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Aureus Veteran
Posts : 101 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-01-11
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 16:46 | |
| - Quote :
- Now there is good argueing about what "available" means. The same way, blessed water "May not be bought by Undead". By your logic, ghoul heroes and necroes could buy the stuff and the vampire could then use it...
I can already imagine two vampires throwing at each other balloons with holy water, bought by their faithful dregs I think such items are unavailable to WH for some specific reason - though rules are badly written. Besides I wonder what might be the fluff reason for such "unavailability"? Other than WH being unable to use poisons that is. If a WH has access to drugs (crimson shade, mad cap shromies), why is suddenly poison explicitly unavailable? Mordheim merchants suddenly became shy? May be that in fluff WH (some of them at least, I bet many of the "puritans" do not) use poisons, but using fluff as an argument in such discussions can lead nowhere - fluff based home made warbands can be an example, as they descend into "awesomeness" more often than not. With this logic a witch hunter can easily use magic tome (bought by a zealot hero, or found during exploration) and become a wizard - He would hate himself so much after that So what would it be: Can they use poisons? Can they use magic tome? Both? Neither? I vote for neither - imagine, a WH with minor magic spells, sounds... radical... almost heretical In my opinion a zealot/flagellant hero is the only potential poison "user" in the WH warband, though it still is kind of silly to me, as they could buy and use the magic tome | |
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catachanfrog Elder
Posts : 319 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2011-07-08
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:08 | |
| - Code:
-
Sibbechai’s corrupt visage contorted into a mask of scorn and contempt. “More sorcery, Helmuth?” the vampire hissed. “Is there no limit to your hypocrisy?” The witch hunter captain continued to mumble his conjurations, allowing the zombie monsters to shuffle and shamble their way between himself and his undead enemy. “The tools of your loathsome kind can be made to serve the cause of Light,” Helmuth Klausner snarled. “By such perversions is this great land threatened and by such perversions shall every last witch and wizard be driven from the Empire!” The vampire paid only partial attention to the witch hunter’s words, watching as the zombie creatures of the madman closed in upon it. The monster’s face twisted with wry amusement. “Is this the best you can do?” Sibbechai laughed. “I find your efforts insulting.” Sibbechai launched its lean form forward, the vampire’s clawed hands lashing out, tearing the head from the shoulders of the nearest zombie as easily as a child pulling wings from a fly. The necrarch snarled a word of power and the next zombie toppled, crumbling into dust before it even finished falling to the blood-soaked cobbles. Sibbechai spun about, gesturing with its clawed hand, sending another blast of dark magic searing into a pair of the shuffling corpses, the unholy power turning both cadaver-things into walking torches. The vampire was spinning about to smash its way through the last of Helmuth’s zombies when sharp, blinding pain surged through its body. The vampire stared down with revulsion as a pustulent mass spread across its chest, a green morass of goo alive with maggots and filth. The vampire ripped the robe from its withered body, hurling the tainted garment into the face of an approaching zombie, the creature shambling onward a few moments before the writhing corruption ate through its skull and consumed its festering brain. Helmuth Klausner snarled as he saw the vampire’s inhumanly quick reflexes react to the pestilential spell the witch hunter had directed at it. Klausner had travelled far to uncover and destroy the corrupted festival, had nearly been killed by the loathsome and bloated priest of Nurgle who had acted as the carnival’s master. He had done so because he had imagined that the spellcraft of such a sorcerer might prove of great use against the restless dead. Fortunately, there was more than one way to burn a bat. The witch hunter pulled his heavy blackpowder pistol from its holster of blackened leather. The vampire saw the man’s reaction, the undead abomination not even deigning to consider such a crude device any threat. Sibbechai ripped through another pair of zombies, finding its path to Helmuth unhindered. Helmuth returned the corpse-thing’s stare, the fanatic zeal in his veins countering the aura of supernatural malice exuding from the vampire’s eyes. With calm deliberation, Helmuth lifted the pistol, whispering the slithering words he had extracted from the mangled body of a wizard in Averheim, the words of an ancient and pre-human spell of guiding. The pistol cracked and roared as Helmuth depressed the trigger, foul black powder smoke blowing back into his face and causing his eyes to tear. The vampire darted aside as the witch hunter’s crude weapon fired. It had fought many men who employed the smelly, unreliable firearms before and had learned that even on the rare occasions when their bullets did strike, they could do the monster no lasting harm. But Sibbechai had not reckoned upon the sorcerous augmentation of the witch hunter’s marksmanship, nor the uniqueness of the shot he had loaded into his weapon. The golden ball smashed into the vampire’s shoulder, spinning the necrarch around and slamming it to the ground. Sibbechai snarled in agony and disbelief as it tried to lift itself from the broken cobbles. A strange paralysis seemed to spread from its injury, making even its wasted limbs seem as heavy as stone. The witch hunter laughed, slipping his smoking weapon back into its holster. “Surprised, monster?” he sneered down at the struggling vampire. “I’ve learned a few new tricks since last our paths crossed.”
Last edited by catachanfrog on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:33; edited 3 times in total | |
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Aureus Veteran
Posts : 101 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-01-11
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:13 | |
| Alrightie, so what are you trying to say is... That vampires are not immune to poison? ups -that was magic, my bad Yes, yes, there are stories about WH using poisons [and magic] , so there are stories about orcs trotting around in heavy armor. Your point is? | |
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TheEnemyWithin Veteran
Posts : 114 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-02-10 Location : Dundee
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Beastmen (EIF) Achievements earned: none
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catachanfrog Elder
Posts : 319 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2011-07-08
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:31 | |
| It's from Mathias Thumnann and - funny thing - this retrospection takes place in Mordheim Razz I just made an effort to show you that: a) I know background better than you b) that witch hunter just used magic Oh and considering rules, witch hunter can't use tome of magic, cause: - Quote :
- Arcane Lore. Witch Hunters, Sisters of Sigmar and
Warrior-Priests may not have this skill. Any warrior with this skill may learn Lesser Magic if he owns a Tome of Magic . Read rules properly. But they can USE poisons. There is nothing "radical" or heretical about poisons. And my opinion is that people not interested in background should play chess instead of mordheim. P.S And there may be stories about h.armor orcs but you can't use it cause mordheim rules says that
Last edited by catachanfrog on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:34; edited 1 time in total | |
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Aureus Veteran
Posts : 101 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-01-11
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:31 | |
| - TheEnemyWithin wrote:
IMO fluff/short stories should never be considered when regarding rule changes or even clarification. ^^ I Agree. Fluff is important, especially as an inspiration, but using it could lead to somewhat peculiar ideas. Helmuth Klausner might have used magic, doesn't mean that your average WH warband should too. | |
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catachanfrog Elder
Posts : 319 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2011-07-08
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:35 | |
| Read my post above and consider your unwise comment. I never said, they can use magic (although zealot could - remember? you told me a coupe days ago about yuour idea of "hidden necromancer" in rpg ). - Quote :
- IMO fluff/short stories should never be considered when regarding rule changes or even clarification.
With this I agree too cause it's impossible. On the other hand I don't like when people tell me that poison-using witch hunter is against the fluff and then when they need an argument, that rules are one thing and background anther...
Last edited by catachanfrog on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:47; edited 1 time in total | |
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Aureus Veteran
Posts : 101 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-01-11
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:43 | |
| - catachanfrog wrote:
- It's from Mathias Thumnann and - funny thing - this retrospection takes place in Mordheim Razz I just made an effort to show you that:
a) I know background better than you Cool b) that witch hunter just used magic Very Happy Yay, all hail the Loremaster, for his is the power of fluff - catachanfrog wrote:
Oh and considering rules, witch hunter can't use tome of magic, cause:
Arcane Lore. Witch Hunters, Sisters of Sigmar and Warrior-Priests may not have this skill. Any warrior with this skill may learn Lesser Magic if he owns a Tome of Magic . But a zealot/flagellant hero can take that skill and become hated wizard - catachanfrog wrote:
But they can USE poisons. There is nothing "radical" or heretical about poisons. And my opinion is that people not interested in background should play chess instead of mordheim. So why they cant buy it? They can buy drugs (and drugs are bad, mmmm'kay), why not poisons then - hard to find fluffy explanation for that. Just admit that M creators overlooked that, among many other things. - catachanfrog wrote:
- P.S And there may be stories about h.armor orcs but you can't use it cause mordheim rules says that
So, WH should use poisons because its fluffy, but orcs cannot wear heavy armor because rules say they can't? Oh, I've heard that one before | |
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Aureus Veteran
Posts : 101 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-01-11
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Achievements earned: none
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catachanfrog Elder
Posts : 319 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2011-07-08
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 17:53 | |
| - Quote :
And so there could be a hidden witch hunter in undead warband. What does RPG has to do with Mordheim?
Or a hidden kislevite bear disguised as a particularly hairy middenheimer Very Happy Just an idea of "hidden wizard" - I hope you don't have a problem with this analogy? And well, witch hunters can practically have a wizard, undead cannot have witch hunter (by the ules) and kislevites can do with thei bear whatever they want! - Quote :
- Just admit that M creators overlooked that, among many other things.
I agree. - Quote :
So, WH should use poisons because its fluffy, but orcs cannot wear heavy armor because rules say they can't? Oh, I've heard that one before Wink I'm saying again, that they (watch out): -------------------------------Can use poisons------------------------------- not should. It's a possibility allowed by rules. end
Last edited by catachanfrog on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 18:03; edited 1 time in total | |
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Aureus Veteran
Posts : 101 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-01-11
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 18:01 | |
| - catachanfrog wrote:
Just an idea of "hidden wizard" - I hope you don't have a problem with this analogy? And well, witch hunters can practically have a wizard, undead cannot have witch hunter (by the ules) and kislevites can do with thei bear whatever they want! Well, that would be a hidden wizard casting silver arrows of arha, or flying around on the battlefield. Nothing bad with the idea, but its better suited for RPG (and I meant a WH disguised as an vampire follower in RPG - to investigate and find its weak points, or for some other purpose, why not) So, should such zealot be caught using magic (casting in plain sight of a WH hero), would he be burnt at stake and removed from the rooster? And still, WH are simply not meant to use poisons ( not that it would save them, ) in Mordheim, you know that. It is overloked by the rules. Like other silly things (flagellant bs advance). | |
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catachanfrog Elder
Posts : 319 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2011-07-08
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 18:10 | |
| I think that poisons are waste of money and you won't see me buing one unless I find them on exploration chart. And if that happens I have no rules limitation to use them. that's all. | |
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Aureus Veteran
Posts : 101 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2012-01-11
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 18:17 | |
| - catachanfrog wrote:
- I think that poisons are waste of money and you won't see me buing one unless I find them on exploration chart. And if that happens I have no rules limitation to use them. that's all.
Fine by me. Not that I consider such "exploit" to be gamebreaking or anything, though poisons (on a crossbow, maybe) would be good against T4 enemies Ah, nothing like a good argument | |
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catachanfrog Elder
Posts : 319 Trading Reputation : 0 Join date : 2011-07-08
Personal Info Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Achievements earned: none
| Subject: Re: Dark Venom and Crossbow Pistol Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 18:19 | |
| ehm....Did we just killed the thread? | |
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