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Heartlessmonkey



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PostSubject: Dread(ful)Fleet   Wed 30 Nov 2011 - 16:07

I'm displeased. After reading through White Dwarf #381 (Oct. '11), I was struck by an overwhelming sense of... enh. I mean - really. The issue was dedicated almost entirely to Dreadfleet, to the point that I was disappointed in even purchasing the magazine. After reading the entire thing, (cuz I'm a masochist apparently), it appears to be no more than a one off type of board game similar to Space Hulk, (which is a great game). This release seems to be a half-assed attempt to, I don't know, increase profit margins? I'm clueless as to why they even bothered. The whole review process and battle reports lacked any real enthusiasm for the product. Oh sure, they said things like "enthused" and "exciting" - a lot, but it reads like a schoolboys book report, (yeah I skimmed it and went through the motions, so do I get an A)? After having spent hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars on products from GW and playing almost every 'Specialist' game they have produced, I'm just not feeling it myself. It almost feels as if I buy into this crud that it would be like being tricked yet again, (HA HA, fooled you. You thought we were going to support this game but after six months to a year we decided to shuffle it off to a nigh unaccessible page and deny it's existence, BWAHAHAHAHAHA). Okay, maybe they wouldn't actually say that, but... come on GW, didn't your parents teach you to finish what you start? When you have a child you don't suddenly decide to stop nurturing and providing for that child! You do whatever it takes to help it grow until it's strong enough to be it's own independent entity. Maybe, just maybe that's what Mordheim has done. Not because GW continued to "raise it", but because the fans came together as a community and grew it to it's own independent and strong entity. But what of the other specialist "children" that GW abandoned? WTF GW!? WHAT KINDA PARENTS ARE YOU!? You bring another bastard into this world for what? So you can make a few bucks? Like some kind of gaming welfare whores!? "Hey let's make another so we can bump our quarterly gains then toss it by the wayside when we're done" I'm just plain disgusted at this lame offering from GW. enh...

Thanks for listening, or not, whichever... lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Wed 30 Nov 2011 - 16:16

In a sense, I think you're right- GW doesn't want to start another "side project", which will just teeter out into nothing. That's why this game is self-contained; it's a board game with miniatures.

As for why they did it, I think they wanted to appease / shut up the old Man o War fans. Launching Man o' War 2.0 would isolate new fans who have never heard about it, and completely changing the rules would annoy the old fans, hence the new name with an old Man-o-war look.

I've never played Dread... it looks fun, but I don't have the dough. Shame you wasted your money on the WD. I never collected much, but I miss the old days with the special army lists- at least you gained something from buying it, rather than just wasting money on a big old wad of ads.
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Heartlessmonkey



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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Wed 30 Nov 2011 - 16:42

StyrofoamKing wrote:
In a sense, I think you're right- GW doesn't want to start another "side project", which will just teeter out into nothing. That's why this game is self-contained; it's a board game with miniatures.

I would have to agree. After the fantastic success they had with the re-release of Space Hulk, I think they were trying to recapture that high. But unlike SH, I never saw a single ad or anything for Dreadfleet.

StyrofoamKing wrote:
As for why they did it, I think they wanted to appease / shut up the old Man o War fans. Launching Man o' War 2.0 would isolate new fans who have never heard about it, and completely changing the rules would annoy the old fans, hence the new name with an old Man-o-war look.

Man o War is one of the few I didn't get around to playing. so I can't really speak to that, but it sounds about right, lol.

StyrofoamKing wrote:
...I miss the old days with the special army lists- at least you gained something from buying it, rather than just wasting money on a big old wad of ads.

Recently GW released the new codices for Sisters of Battle and Necrons with lists and all in WD. But for the most part it seems to be a lot of battle reports and ads. However, the painting, modeling and army workshops articles make up for it i think.

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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Thu 1 Dec 2011 - 3:48

If you don't like Dreadfleet - don't buy it. Wink

How can so many people be upset by a boxed game? Grief, you'd think GW came into your house in the night and punched your kitten in the face! GW are not "parents" they are a business. They made a product that they want you to buy (hence the WD and web coverage) so they can make a profit. In tough economic times they tried something out-of-the-ordinary and everyone goes batshit mental! GET OVER IT eh? Rolling Eyes They should be applauded for taking such a risk!

It is a self-contained game that will not be "supported" because it does not need support. Everything you need to play is in the box.

In part it just was an excuse for the designers and writers to explore a bit of the Warhammer World that has had very little coverage from GW, and on that front you can not fault it (and since it's my favourite region of that world I love it!). Cool pirat

They will hopefully do the same with the (rumoured) forthcoming campaign books, the first of which Blood in the Badlands explores the Badlands area and includes rules for sieges and Underground battles. I really hope they carry on and do many more like this book, and like Dreadfleet!

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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Thu 1 Dec 2011 - 5:01

WarbossKurgan wrote:
If you don't like Dreadfleet - don't buy it. Wink

That about says it all. Dreadfleet, like Talisman, is a stand alone, one shot, limited edition that is intended, designer aspirations aside, to bringing in some extra cash with a limited amount of risk. If you want more from a Naval Game check out Uncharted Sea or Dystopian Wars or one of the micro-scale historical games. eeexcellent!

If you don't like Games Workshop, for whatever reasons, don't buy their products...or start an Occupy G.W. movement. clown
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Thu 1 Dec 2011 - 5:13

DeafNala wrote:
or start an Occupy G.W. movement. clown
No! Don't do that! Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Fri 2 Dec 2011 - 12:04

I'm in WarbossKurgan's camp - if you don't like it, don't buy it.

Not everything they release is going to be custom made to suit everyone... I picked up Dreadfleet and I'm going to get Blood in the Badlands, but I'm skipping that Tamurkhan supplement (no elves, as I understand it!). I'm still glad they released it though, because it gives Chaos Dwarf players what they've been waiting for more than 10 years - that's awesome, even if its something I'll never personally buy.

Dreadfleet is great for me, personally, because with a little effort, I can use it and the compononts with my existing Man o' War and Uncharted Seas stuff. It's also a fantastic way to introduce neophytes into wargaming in general, because of how presentable and self-contained it all is.
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Fri 2 Dec 2011 - 14:42

My only real problem with Dreadfleet is the mass spamming of what is a limited edition item.

I expect it for a month (standard GW policy), but features, leaflets, constant stuff on the FB for my local GW etc gets a bit much when it is something they won't support past the Christmas big-spend period (and I fully understand and accept the reasons why).

I honestly think they missed a trick - Space Hulk was huge when they released it this time round, sold out quickly due to the nostalgia factor. By putting resources into Dreadfleet rather than, say, a Warhammer Quest redux along Space Hulk lines, I think it was resources wasted. If you take out the younger market, who do you have left? Geeks with disposable income like you or I - and geeks go gaga for nostalgia.

I know I'd have started drooling over a WHQ limited edition release - and I'd have pre-ordered it as quickly as I could!

Now, the campaign book that was mentioned in this WD is the kind of thing I'm very happy to see coming out of GW - almost feels like the beginnings of a return to when campaigns and friendly play were the respected way of playing rather than the Tournament *spit* scene.
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WarbossKurgan
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Sat 3 Dec 2011 - 1:54

I suspect it would have been for just a month if they had sold out in that time. Remaining stocks = more sales pitch.

I wouldn't have bought Warhammer Quest. I didn't buy Space Hulk. I pre-ordered Dreadfleet and the novella. No game can appeal to everyone!
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Sat 3 Dec 2011 - 11:05

WarbossKurgan wrote:
I suspect it would have been for just a month if they had sold out in that time. Remaining stocks = more sales pitch.

I wouldn't have bought Warhammer Quest. I didn't buy Space Hulk. I pre-ordered Dreadfleet and the novella. No game can appeal to everyone!

I certainly don't expect a game to appeal to everyone, but I think it is acceptable to concede that GW dropped the ball on this one - most other 'While stocks last' items fly out, not this one. GW needs to look at why that is the case - sending out a few more scenarios with WD for a game that the vast majority of people have no interest in is hardly going to make many people think 'yeah, I'm gonna go out and buy that game that I've not had one dot of interest in since it first blighted my inbox/letterbox'.

It is fair enough that you wouldn't have bought WHQ, but I maintain that it had a bigger potential market as a one-shot than this. The popularity of the Space Hulk one-shot is testament to the fact that nostalgia is a huge selling point in hobbies like ours.
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Sat 3 Dec 2011 - 11:31

Maybe, but don't assume GW's profit on this game requires all the boxes to sell. That would be very poor business sense! I imagine they have broken-even at least... I don't see how that's dropping the ball at all.

I do agree that Space Hulk did a lot better, but it was the third edition of a much loved game as you said. GW should still be applauded for trying something risky and not just regurgitating new versions of old successes... like Hollywood is doing!
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Tue 6 Dec 2011 - 3:44

Holy crap! Why did it just hit me NOW that Dreadfleet could be used in conjunction with a Sartosa Mordheim Campaign?!? Man, I'm slow!

Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Tue 6 Dec 2011 - 4:07

Razz Laughing Laughing Laughing

We've talked about warbands themed from each of the ships!

Undead Skaven (!)
Chaos Dwarf Marines (not quite true since there is only one Dwarf on the Mechanical Squid in the fluff!)
Sartosa Pirates x2 (the crews of both Aranessa Saltspite and Jago Roth)
Vampire Pirates (Drowned zombies and Men o'bones skeletons)
Khemri (standard warband)
High Elven (Lothern Sea Guard?)
Dwarven naval engineers of Barak Varr
Ghost Pirates (standard warband)
Arabyan Sorcerer (who wants to make the Ogre eunuch bodyguard? Shocked)

pirat The captains of each ship could make great Dramatis Personae.


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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Tue 6 Dec 2011 - 11:32

Man, I'll have to include that as a Sartosa supplement- rules for "swap in" units, DPs, and NPCs.

I'm halfway through the book at the moment, and I'm loving it. In regards to plot & character, it's cliched and has very little depth. The devil is the the details, though- Kelly works in little tiny references that inspire you about tons of other things. For example, you passingly mentions a street called Merwight alley. What's a Merwight? Where can I learn more, and where do I stick one in my next Sartosa campaign? What a Face

As for the sorceror, the Smugglers might work, or the Arabyan tribe warband from Relics. Feel free to look at the "Sages and Mages" pdf I wrote for Styroheim that gives advice for making your leader a Spellcaster.

Or, as a third option, use the Sorcerous Society warband by Brahms. The idea of the Golden Magus bringing some lesser sorcerors with him.
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Tue 6 Dec 2011 - 14:58

PS I've ordered Blood in the Badlands, see, I don't hate GW Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Fri 9 Dec 2011 - 9:15

Undead Skaven... hmm. My instinct says to use the Skaven Skyre list as a basis.

Changes:
Sorcorer can learn Undead & Skaven Spells.
The acolytes can learn "Call of Vanheim" as a spell (to push the undead forward.) May not learn further spells unless they become leader.

The Skaven slaves would be incorporated with zombies.
For a final unit, part of me thinks a Dire Rat might be fun, but maybe something in keeping with the nautical theme would be better. Maybe some sort of sticked together frog/rat? Amphibious AND undead?

Or maybe give them the Skaven Jezzail from the Sartosa hired sword. They get the same bang, but have to pay a lot for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dread(ful)Fleet   Today at 18:14

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