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 Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?

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hero
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PostSubject: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Thu 11 Nov 2010 - 23:29

When models have a cloak that "counts as buckler in close combat" are they able to use an offhand weapon in addition to the cloak or not? It's not really a weapon, but it counts as a buckler so maybe it still uses up a hand. What say you?
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 12 Nov 2010 - 7:32

I would say "Counts as" works both ways - so while the cloak gives the same benefits as the buckler (being able to parry / reroll parries in conjunction with a sword), it also gives the same drawbacks, namely using up a free hand. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 12 Nov 2010 - 8:25



The cloak counts as a Buckler, and you can't use a buckler and weapon in the same hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Sat 13 Nov 2010 - 16:50

Which warrior/warband are we talking about? Or are we talking about a specific cloak? Or a skill?
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 4:20

I know that this is minor necro'ing but I knew I had seen where this was from and only just found it today so I just had to post.

Von Kurst, the Highwayman from Empire in Flames has a Cloak that counts as a Buckler. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 4:27

Realistically seen:

Yes against piercing weapons such as daggers, rapiers and spears. A big no-no against clubs, axes and broadswords. The cloak isn't helping against these.

But in the rules of the game,: if a cloak counts as a buckler, it provides all the same rules as the buckler inplace. It allows parries (even an armour save in our house rules) but comes at the cost of not using a hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 6:28

Well this is an interesting point.
Not only Highwayman but also Duelist hired sword uses his cloak as a buckler.
My humble opinion: since duelist HS is mainly divided from DoW duelists and therefor these models:

i'd say yes, they can use boht hands and parry as well. This is supposed to be the advantage of these hired sword not beeing just as any other hero from your warband, isn't it?


Last edited by Aldhick on Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 6:32; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 6:30

Perhaps, but with the rules as written "counts as a buckler" would mean no weapon in that hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 6:50

I agree with mweaver that the cloak should be held to grant the benefits of a buckler as per Warboss Kurgan's post. The miniatures that have a cloak with two weapons simply are choosing not to use the cloak as a buckler in their pose.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 7:50

If it wasn't the same as a buckler then they would have written it out. Since it is the same as a buckler they said it counts as a buckler.
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 9:09

I agree, there is no question about RAW. But I still don't feel comfortable about RAI. Are there any other examples of equipment, that is mentioned, but is only matter of fluff/model? Surprised
And don't feel like I'm arguing. Just thinking aloud Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Cloak Counts as Buckler in Close Combat?   Fri 18 Feb 2011 - 11:45

Our group rarely uses the Highwayman or the Duelist. But the Duelist was part of our Tilean campaign and I think he was played as you suggest. (He got to make an off-hand attack and re-roll a parry.) A closer reading of the rules suggests we were a bit lax with our interpretation but the world didn't end.

Quote :
Are there any other examples of equipment, that is mentioned, but is only matter of fluff/model?

I don't think of it as only a matter of fluff. It is instead an option. The duelist can opt for a defensive strategy or an offensive one. Since he has a better chance of parrying an attack than other models having a re-roll could be useful in some situations but not others.

The Highwayman has a similar choice. For example if he attacks when mounted he could choose to use the cloak as a buckler, since by Nemesis Crown rules, he couldn't use a weapon in his off-hand when mounted.
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