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 House Rule Idea; Bastard Swords

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Exarch Thomo
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PostSubject: House Rule Idea; Bastard Swords   Fri 9 May 2008 - 6:01

Hi all,

I have always though that the qualities of the good ol' hand-and-a-half sword should be included in Mordheim, but understand that it was probably easier to include it under swords or just not worry about it.
So, I have come up with basic rules for what I think is a reasonable representation of a Bastard sword. I apologise if this is indeed out there somewhere, but if it is I haven't found it.

Bastard Sword
The Bastard Sword can be used in one of two ways - either as a one-handed weapon or wielded in 2 hands. Decide at the start of each combat as to how it will be wielded.
One-handed: If it is wielded in one hand the following rules apply:
Unwieldy: A warrior with a bastard sword may only use a shield or buckler in the other hand. May not use a second weapon.
Parry: May parry - as per Mordheim rules.
Two-handed: If it is wielded with 2 hands the following rules apply:
Strength Bonus: +1 S when used with 2 hands
Parry: As per Mordheim rules
Two-handed: May not use a shield/buckler or second weapon.

What do you think? It's very basic and hasn't been play tested yet - but I don't think it is over powered. What do you think? Not sure of the pricing, but I was thinking of something like 15gc and Rare (9) - too much? Not enough?
Also I am thinking of needing the Weapons Training to use it as well - to restrict the usage to certain models.
So, what do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: House Rule Idea; Bastard Swords   Fri 9 May 2008 - 6:20

mmmh...

I get the point of your idea, I think your house rules reflect effectively what a bastard sword is (I played with a bastard sword in Neverwinter Nights RPG on the comp, so I simple LOVE it!!)...

but as for the gameplay, I don't really see the point of that weapon.
I mean, look at the rules:
If you use it as a single-handed weapon, it's worse than a simple sword (more expensive and you can't use a secondary weapon)

If you use it as a double-handed weapon, it's better than a double-handed sword because you don't have the rule "always strike last" (and it's better to strike first with S+1 than strike last with S+2)

So IMO people will always use your bastard sword as a double-handed weapon because of its attractiveness...

But let's see what the others think!
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PostSubject: Re: House Rule Idea; Bastard Swords   Fri 9 May 2008 - 6:28

Thanks - I am concerned about that - which is why I posted it here for people to tear apart.
I realise that the +1 S and strike at Initiative order is more desirable (for a lot of warbands) than the double-handed weapon - which is why I think it should be more expensive and limited to those models who have the Weapons Training skill.
The attraction for it over the normal sword is obviously the versatillity of it.
Maybe a -1 Initiative when used 2 handed? I don't want to make it overly complicated then.
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PostSubject: Re: House Rule Idea; Bastard Swords   Sat 10 May 2008 - 1:43

mmmh...

or maybe you could make this weapon "unique"... like a weapon that your warband may encounter during a campaign (as a reward for a mission for example).
Then you would have a champion or your captain holding the Unique Bastard Sword from Hell (all magical weapons are always "from Hell", don't ask me why Smile )

Anyway, I'm surprised there aren't any more reactions to this topic...

C'mon guys ?? cyclops
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Pathfinder Dubstyles
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PostSubject: Re: House Rule Idea; Bastard Swords   Sat 10 May 2008 - 10:54

I believe the key to designing a weapon that straddles two classes of existing items is to make it versatile in that it can be used two ways, but not as good as the originals. Make it a jack-of-all-trades & master-of-none, and when I say all trades i mean just swords and double-handed weapons!

It should be cheaper than both weapons separately, but not compete with either one on price or ability, quite a daunting task!

So with that said:

As a one-handed sword the unwieldy rule is appropriate, and makes it not quite as good as a sword.

A parry when used two-handed is very powerful. But if you take that away it would just be a halibard. -1 initiative as you suggested isn't that complex, ithilmar weapons add one so there is already precedent for that type of modifier.

I suggest keeping the one handed feature as is and changing the two handed to either -half initiative or -1 initiative and always strike last when tied for initiative.

Parry is a tough question, realistically it should allow you too, parry, but more drawbacks are required to make it work. Possibly, -half initiative is more of a negative than I think it is and a parry could be allowed with that.

The price you listed sounds good as a rare item, or 20 as a common.

And that's my two cents!
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PostSubject: Re: House Rule Idea; Bastard Swords   Sun 11 May 2008 - 2:00

BTW, I wouldn't change the Initiative when carrying the sword two-handed.
It's totally unrealistic. You're faster when you wield a sword two-handed.

I'd say give it minus 1 Ini when wielding it one-handed (it takes years to learn to handle a bastard sword one handed).
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