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 Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?

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Wafflefanny
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PostSubject: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Wed 30 Jun 2010 - 13:10

I've always been bothered by the to hit re-rolls when charging (the damn Hatred rule) and it seems once i lose a game, they always do so good in the Income phase because of that extra Wyrdstone shard they get, and the small amount of warriors that helps them earn serious mulah.

Besides that, they are damned hard to kill (only OOA on a 6) have an average T4 and have a high leadership, and Heroes that are immune to Psychology. Don't even get me started on easy access to Gromril and those amazing Axes.

The only way ive found to beat them is to spend alot of time cleverly out manouevering them (little guys are slow) and investing in skills like Strike to Injure. But i feel like i spend alot of time countering their abilities rather than tactically improving mine. I can only move around them 1v1 when there is no round limit. And skills are no good for my Henchies cause they cant take skills.

Any ideas? (No i don't wannt any sassy DWARF comments, go back to being useless in a tavern where you BELONG)
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Wed 30 Jun 2010 - 13:33

I'd drop the squigs and gobos from your starting warband for starters. Orcs lad, orcs.

Also I recommend searching for all the threads by Dwarfs bitching about how tough orcs are and take some pointers from there.

Specifically posts by JAFisher44, orcs give him fits.
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Rudeboy
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Thu 1 Jul 2010 - 7:34

The trick to killing Dwarves is to knock them down, then taking them-out.

Think about advantages that they have over each other.

Speed - Orcs are faster

Weapon - Skill Dwarves are usually better

Shooting -Dwarves are usually better and the Engineer helps a lot

Strength - about the same, but the Orc Boss starts with a 4, no Dwarves start with a 4

Toughness - Dwarves are slightly tougher due to the OOA on a 6 only although both start with 4 toughness on heroes and henchmen the exception are Goblins

Wounds - are equal everyone starts with 1

Initiative - Orcs are mostly 3 Dwarves are 2

attacks - are the same 1

Leadership - Dwarves are a 9 Orcs are an 8

Armor - Dwarves can get Gromril and Heavy Armor although early on it's a little expensive to armor-up all of your guys.

Cost - Orcs are a little cheaper, you can out fit an Orc Boy with 2 clubs for 31 GP, for the same price you can get a Beardling and 2 hammers, but stat wise they aren't as good, a clansman with 2 hammers is 46 GP. So you can get 3 Orc boys for the price of 2 clansmen.

Max number of models - Orcs 20, Dwarves 12, which allow Orcs to be able to swarm a Dwarven Warband.

Magic - Orcs have it, Dwarves do not. Most of the Orc Spells are pretty good too.

X factor Animosity - I have had animosity screw me over in games, and other times I have had it save my behind. I've had henchmen fight each other the whole battle, and I have had the bonus movement at the right time getting an Orc Boy into combat at just the right moment. It's something you cannot count on or count-out.

I think the way you win is to get your Orcs into Hand to Hand and get uneven battles, 2 or more Orcs on 1 Dwarf. Also getting Strongman and Two handed Weapons would allow you to swing at higher strength reducing the effectiveness of armor. The idea is that you get the first Orc to knock the Dwarf down and the second Orc to take him OOA.

I am a fan of squigs early on, but as the campaign goes on since they don't gain Exp models that can gain exp can surpass them. So 2 or 3 is usually enough and then as they die replace them with Orc Boys.
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kroxigor01
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Thu 1 Jul 2010 - 7:52

Throw all your Orcs forward in a big WAAAGH! If enough Dwarfs fall down, you should be able to steam roll over them. If they withstand the initial rounds, they should be able to use their WS and Hard Heads to beat you.

If you are ever given the oppertunity to rout, it would probably be wise to do so and "come bakk for anover go later!"
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mweaver
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Thu 1 Jul 2010 - 8:42

Magic, speed, and numbers are your main advantages. His is the better leadership and the resiliency. They are reasonably matched warbands, in my experience, with the orcs generally doing better early on but the dwarves catching up in the longer haul.

I agree with Von Kurst's and Rudeboy's suggestions. I would go boyz only, because you need the extra heroes. As you noted, the dwarves will out-income you since both start with four heroes but they receive the extra shard. However, given the relative expense of the models - and the dwarven temptation to buy special kit - you have the potential to start with a significantly larger warband of promotable henchmen, and should reach six heroes before he does (of course, he may be more lucky with his henchmen improvement rolls - it happens). The squigs are effective in combat, but cannot be promoted and each one requires you to take a weak and unpromotable goblin as well.

Note Rudeboy's initial comment - it is very important. The "only taken out on a roll of 6" rule for dwarves is canceled if you are attacking a knocked down or stunned dwarf - but about the only way to do that is to have two or more models pounding on the target stuntie - one to knock him down or stun him and the other to finish him off.

How many warbands are in the campaign? How do you select scenarios? A lot of the official scenarios benefit faster warbands. If you are only playing toe-to-toe slugfests, one dwarven disadvantage (their slow speed) is largely negated.
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Wafflefanny
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Tue 6 Jul 2010 - 16:26

I appreciate all the suggestions, i will definatley roam around the forum for Dwarven complaints. Kroxigor01, you're enthusiasm makes me proud Very Happy

Gork and Mork, man. I am gonna miss those Squigs haha. you're all right, of course. Thanks again!
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FKSN
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Tue 6 Jul 2010 - 23:24

Quote :
Orcs are a little cheaper,
you can out fit an Orc Boy with 2 clubs for 31 GP

Is there an updated orc list available somewhere? "Da Mob Roolz", or the PDF I have of it at least, don't list basic clubs in the orc equipment list. Only the goblins are allowed clubs.

This little detail stuck out to me when I was planning for these guys: 1 & 2 to be my big 'uns.
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Dahag
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Wed 7 Jul 2010 - 1:10

If I'm not mistaken, there is only one version of Orc List ("Da Mob Roolz").

They simply errata-ed the club into the Orc (Hero) List in the latest Rules Review (2005) and thats about it. They did never publish an updated list.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Wed 7 Jul 2010 - 7:11

Yeah they errata says that Orcs can take clubs.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Wed 7 Jul 2010 - 7:15

Dahag wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, there is only one version of Orc List ("Da Mob Roolz").

They simply errata-ed the club into the Orc (Hero) List in the latest Rules Review (2005) and thats about it. They did never publish an updated list.

Well yes and no. To me there are...counts fingers...a bunch of slightly different versions. The first in a WD, then the one in the Best of TC and then the 02 Annual. A word or 2 got changed here and there but somehow the club thing kept getting left out.

For example it was first corrected in TC#12's errata but still not corrected in the 02 list.

And it still is left out despite the Rules Review and the cut and paste function. Just another way The Man keeps the Green down.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Way to Wreck the Dwarves with Orcs?   Today at 11:24

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