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 Making Zealots Worth It?

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Cavonius
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PostSubject: Re: Making Zealots Worth It?   Thu 5 Nov 2009 - 14:14

Max of 15 models should have been llisted in the rules from the start.

Why change the costs for hounds from 15 to 20?
The beastmen dogs are at movement 7 and Initiative 3 and costs 15. This makes them better.
And not to talk about the chaos marauder rules for there dogs, same stats and costs as the beastmen dog, but gains two attacks from the whip equipment, that is crazy!

That whip should not have that rule.

Otherwise, zealots are crap. I'm using them because I like the models i created.
I agree to put some crazied rule on them or something. Otherwise make them 15gc.
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Pathfinder Dubstyles
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PostSubject: Re: Making Zealots Worth It?   Sat 7 Nov 2009 - 19:44

SeiFeR-NL wrote:
Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
I think a cap on
flagellants already makes zealots vable so long as the warband size in
increased to 15.

This means there would be the usual choice of strong animal, or weaker warrior who gains experience.

I
think giving witch hunters a 2-for-one discount on torches would not be
out of the question, or even "all heroes get a free torch every
game."

Indeed increase it to 15. You have 5 Heroes and 5 flagelants = 10...
That means you have to fill it with 5 more...
Warhounds are good to start with but don't gain exp...
So in the longrun Zealots will become better then the "stupid" dog.

Just my thoughts.

That is axactly what i was trying to say, he just articulated it better!

One huge reason animals are cheaper than experience gaining warriors is
because they can't grab objectives or climb ladders. That's a pretty
big downside if you look at a scenario as more than just a number
crunch!

I still am not convinced that zealots need any drastic changes, but for those interested in a crazed type rule with a few drawbacks (although i thought that was what flaggelants were for) why not use the special rules for the nuttas in the black orc list, just applied to humans. Here is a copy:
Quote :
Savage: Nuttaz must always run or charge their maximum distance
towards the nearest opponent they can see. Friendly models do not block
line of sight. Additionally they fight with an extra attack whilst in
combat. This does not appear on their profile nor does it count towards
the racial maximum.
If no enemy is visible they are moved under the player’s control. They
can never use any form of armour or ranged weapons. Nuttaz are also too
unstable for other Boyz and can never have the Leader ability or use
their Ld stat for rout tests, excepting them as being the only models
left on the board.

Overall, I can boldly say I believe if the warband size were increased to the much agreed on 15, than nothing else needs to be done to balance the henchmen for witch hunters. But for those that feel the opposite, i hope this thread reveals an alternative that you can live with

Wow this post got long!
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Matumaros
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PostSubject: Re: Making Zealots Worth It?   Mon 9 Nov 2009 - 9:24

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:

I still am not convinced that zealots need any drastic changes, but for those interested in a crazed type rule with a few drawbacks (although i thought that was what flaggelants were for) why not use the special rules for the nuttas in the black orc list, just applied to humans.
Indeed, Flaggies are the crazed unit choice, Zealots could just benefit from a fluffy rule that also "helps" them out a bit... I think there's no need to make them so enraged that they need to chase enemies around, Hatred is much simpler and fluffier...
Just need to come out with a balanced and veritable selection of hated models...

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
Overall, I can boldly say I believe if the warband size were increased to the much agreed on 15, than nothing else needs to be done to balance the henchmen for witch hunters.
Indeed, Hating Zeals are nothing too drastic...
On the other side, for those that feel the WB could benefit from a "revival", I'd consider tweaking a lil' more with dogs and flaggies.

Flaggies:
Good to see someone more that thinks they should not be heroes. They're crazed lunatics fluff-wise, and I'd resort to WHFB7th for their stats. Also, no trace of them as heroes in that "mother" system.
I definitely can't see them directing comrades after a battle in collecting wyrdstone around while "the end is near" or heading to the merchant to find that rare stuff the captain needs...

Dogs:
They could "benefit" from lower stats, and perhaps higher cost (5gc?). As they are, they're smaller than wolves, yet better at WS, S and I in exchange for moving slower (M6 vs M9, which is good but often useless)... something smelly there.
I'd leave WS4, and maybe raise their Ld to 6, both due to training and selection (they're WARhounds, after all), but to me no way they're stronger and swifter than a wolf (S3 and I3).

Cheers!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Making Zealots Worth It?   Today at 2:52

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