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 Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?

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Nastyogre
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PostSubject: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Mon 28 Dec 2009 - 10:15

as a very long time Middenheimer player I've begun to wonder if the optional Wolfpriest of Ulric is worth it. For those of you that don't know about the Wolfpriest the info is listed below. (courtesy of Mordheimer's site)

Comparison.


  • The Wolfpriest is 60 Gc as opposed to te Champion's 35 Gc.
  • Wolfpriest is relegated to more limited weapons (though not a big deal, he can use hammers)
  • The Wolfpriest is only str 3 WS 3 BS 2. Champion Str 4 (Middenheimer remember) WS 4 BS 3.
  • Wolfpriest DOES have spells. Some very good ones, Bloodlust and Snow Squall and Wolf's Hunger are fairly easy and good spells. The other 3 are Diff 10 and of questionable utility. Get a good spell and he's probably worth the cost. Get a bad spell...
  • The other factor is the Wolf Companion. It is VERY good. 25GC for the BEST animal in the game. (cost to combat capacity) SO the wolf can make up for the combat weakness to a great extent. Here's the question though. Is that cost, 85 GC plus weaponry for the priest, really worth it?
You can get your standard str 4 Champion and a swordsman for 70 gc plus weapons. I've begun to doubt whether or not this is worth it.

What do my esteemed colleagues here at Tom's think?


60 gc to hire

As appeared in Town Cryer 8.
The Wolf Priests of Ulric hail from Middenheim, the city of
the White Wolf, built on a plateau that according to legend was created by a
mighty blow from Ulric's fist. Ulric, the White Wolf, is the god of winter and a
violent god, and his priests see the hammer-like blow of the comet on Mordheim
as Ulric's judgment on the decadent Sigmarites.
May be Hired: Wolf Priests may only join a Middenheim
Mercenary warband and will replace one of the Champions. They see Witch Hunters
and Sisters of Sigmar as heretics and worse due to the intense rivalry between
the cults of Ulric and Sigmar.
<blockquote>

Profile


M


WS


BS


S


T


W


I


A


Ld

Wolf Priest
4 3 2 3 3 1 3 1 8
</blockquote>
Weapons/Armor: Wolf Priests may
not use any armor, trusting only in Ulric's protection. The only exception is
that every Wolf Priest is garbed in a cloak made from the pelt of a white wolf:
6+ save. The cost of the cloak is included in the cost of the priest. Wolf
Priests prefer the use of blunt weapons to those with edges, and thus may only
use hammers, maces, clubs, flails, morning stars, and the two-handed version of
any of these. The exception to this is the ubiquitous dagger that most models
carry.
Skills: Wolf Priests may chose
from the Combat, Academic, Strength and Speed lists.
Special Rules:

  • Hatred: Wolf Priests see Witch Hunters (Templars
    of Sigmar), Warrior-Priests, Sigmarite Matriarchs and Sisters Superior as
    agents of an opposing cult, and thus they HATE these models. That hatred
    does not extend to other models in those warbands, as the Wolf Priests see
    them simply as misguided followers of an errant cult.

  • Priest: Wolf Priests are able to gain Ulric's
    favor and learn and cast from the Prayers of Ulric.

  • Wolf Companion: Wolf Priests may be accompanied by
    a huge wolf.



<blockquote>
<blockquote>
WOLF COMPANION; Henchman 25 GC to hire Warbands may only purchase a wolf companion if they have a
Wolf Priest of Ulric in their midst. The priest may choose to be accompanied
by a huge wild wolf, which often scouts ahead to warn the priest of danger.

Profile


M



WS



BS



S



T



W



I



A



Ld


Wolf Companion
6 4 0 4 4 1 4 2 5
Weapons/Armor: The wolf uses
its fangs to attack its prey and cannot use any other weapon. Their thick
coat of fur counts as a wolf cloak for protection: 6+ save.
Special Rules:

  • Animals: Wolf companions are animals and thus do not
    gain any experience.

</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Prayers of Ulric


In a similar way to Sigmarite sisters and Warrior-Priests and
their prayers to Sigmar, Wolf Priests call upon their god for assistance in
times of battle. Wolf Priests may use a wolf cloak and still chant these
prayers. They are prayers, not spells, and thus any special protection against
spells does not affect them. Wolf Priests use the rules for magic with the
following prayers.

  1. Snow Squall: Ulric extends his protection to the
    Wolf Priest in the form of a localized snow squall that engulfs the model.
    All enemy models in hand-to-hand combat with the priest are at -1 to hit due
    to the swirling snow and winds. The spell lasts for the duration of the
    hand-to-hand combat. Difficulty 6

  2. Hammerschlag: The Wolf Priest calls down a hammer
    blow from Ulric on any model within 6". That model suffers a S4 attack from
    an enormous ethereal hammer, including the concussion special rule.
    Difficulty 10

  3. Bloodlust: The Wolf Priest is infused with a lust
    for battle and attacks wildly All attacks are at S +2, and he scores a
    critical hit on a 5-6. The Wolf Priest must test, by rolling the prayer's
    difficulty or greater on 2D6, each turn to see if the prayer remains in
    effect. Difficulty 7

  4. Wolf's Hunger: One member of the warband (priest's
    choice) is thrown into a Frenzy (See page 39 of the Mordheim rulebook for
    details.) Difficulty 7

  5. Ulric's Howl: The Wolf Priest's prayer is answered
    as an ear-shattering inhuman howl roars from his throat. For the duration of
    the battle, all members of the priest's warband are immune to Fear and All
    Alone tests as they feel the presence of their god. Additionally, all Rout
    tests are at +1. Difficulty 10

  6. Call of Ulric: The Wolf Priest lets out a cry of
    agony as his body re-shapes itself into that of a huge, slavering wolf with
    the following profile below. Difficulty 10



<blockquote>
<blockquote>

Profile


M


WS


BS


S


T


W


I


A


Ld

Wolf Form
6 4 0 4 4 1 5 2 6

Wolf Form (max)
7 6 0 4 4 3 7 3 7
</blockquote>
During the time that the priest is in the form of a wolf,
he may do nothing but attack as a wolf: no spell-casting or weapons use. He
still hates Sigmar's minions, however. In each shooting phase, the priest
may choose to make a Ld test (using the Wolfs Ld 6) to regain his human
form. If he is still in wolf form at the end of the battle he gets one last
chance to return to human form. If he does not, then he remains a wolf
forever! He is still a hero, and thus entitled to XP gains and attribute
increases. He may only choose skills from the Speed Table, with the
exception of Scale Sheer Surfaces.
</blockquote>

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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Mon 28 Dec 2009 - 11:15

I'd say that it depends on the fluff of the warband in question as he's got some serious drawbacks (as with all spellcasters.) In a campaign setting it might lend it self to trouble finding allies as there wouldn't really be much excuse for them to line up with a sigmarite anything warband.
(my thinking is that a bunch of soldiers of fortune wouldn't really align themselves with a priest even if he is from their local religion if it wasn't for the fact that they were open to what he was saying.) it depends on their mindset as a warband. (although the wolf form makes me want a middenheim warband more than anything Very Happy)
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Mon 28 Dec 2009 - 12:25

I am running the wolf priest in a campaign right now and can safely say that I would take the wolf priest again and that I would recommend other players take the wolf priest. I equip him with a double handed weapon and as soon as I can the strongman skill and let him on his way.

I think he adds a lot of flavor to the Middenheimers, and really distinguishes Middenheim from the Marienburgers and Reiklanders. I do feel that the best thing about the priest is the wolf campanion. Were it not for the wolf companion, I may feel very differently about the priest.

In short, in my experience, the addition of a wolf priest further distinguishes the character and feel of the Middenheimers from the other mercenaries. I have heard several people say that the Middenheimer warband is the weakest warband GW produced, and it seems to me that the Wolf Priest pushes the Middenheimers a little bit closer to average.


Last edited by Joker2and53 on Mon 28 Dec 2009 - 14:32; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Mon 28 Dec 2009 - 12:44

I am playing with joker2and53, I agree with him

His Wolf Priest Flavors the Band, and it gives him the wolf which he uses pretty well.
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Tue 29 Dec 2009 - 1:45

If the wolf is the only thing that makes him good/cool/whatever-gets-your-juices-flowing, you might as well go play pokémon Smile

But seriously, as long as he isn't "over the top" and dont remind you more of a weakened Dramatis Personae (which he does in my mind, at least), then go ahead. But I wouldnt use him, as just by looking at his stats and special rules, the whole concept of "Kill your darlings" and "Less is more" has both been flushed down the drain here. Hired Sword only, yes. Middenheim champion replacement... hm, not for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Tue 29 Dec 2009 - 5:57

Using a Wolf's Priest as a replacement for a Champion is a bite dicey, but can pay off in the long run if he learns the effective spells.

Yes, the Wolf Companion is a great warband addition, and can make up for the Wolf Priest's lesser effectiveness at the start. When the Wolf Priest gets Wolf's Hunger and Bloodlust, then he really starts to come into his own.

Call of Ulric is a spell none of us would ever use in its official form. However, we've taken an idea from the Vampires' Lords of the Night skill list and modified Call of Ulric so that some of the stats remain unchanged from the Wolf Priest's original stats, and made changing back to human form at the end of a scenario automatic.

We've used the Wolf Priest through 3 campaigns now, after many years of Middenheimer play without him. However, we did make other Middenheimer warband changes - we allowed the Wolf Priest to replace a Youngblood rather than a Champion, and brought his recruitment price down to a reasonable 35gc.
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Tue 29 Dec 2009 - 8:48

I think you have forgotten the wolf cloak, which is in fact light armor. LA is worth of 20 gc. If you subtract this from priest's price, you get 40 gc for naked prayer casting model, which is, I guess, adequate.

What is realy unreasonable is the cost of his companion...
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Tue 29 Dec 2009 - 9:33

Aldhick wrote:
I think you have forgotten the wolf cloak, which is in fact light armor. LA is worth of 20 gc. If you subtract this from priest's price, you get 40 gc for naked prayer casting model, which is, I guess, adequate.

What is realy unreasonable is the cost of his companion...

Seconded, and well said. Just last night my wolf held up five or six giant rats, taking two of them out of action and knocking out and stunning several more during a many round combat. In addition to holding up the giant rats, the wolf also murdered two halflings at the beginning of the game (we were playing a special multiplayer scenario were the warbands were trying to capture Lumpin Kroop's Fighting Cocks).
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Thu 31 Dec 2009 - 20:27

The companion does kick some tail (pun intended) early on.

Middenheimer's being the weakest warband? Really? 3 Guys St4? (discounting the Wolf Priest at the moment and taking a regular champion)
The ability for them to take out and drop opponents is wonderful. I like to employ the Norse concept of a shield bearer (or man). Some warrior with a shield and sword that takes that first charge that might head the way of the champion.
Then the champ rolls in a beats the tar out of whatever happens to be in the way.

ST isn't easy to come by and to start with a stat that is at the human max gets you all the closer to rolling at the scores you really want.

The most feared warband among all those I've played is my Ulrics Chosen. Granted, much of that is due to the permant Nikodemus on the roster (I got him fairly early and keep a store of wyrdstone to ensure his continued employment) I eventually could only field them vs 2 warbands or people wouldn't play them. Swordsmen that ar Str 4 WS 5.... A bloodlusting, stongman wolfpriest... The only two losses they have are to a very lucky lizardman warband who actually shot Nikodemus down and a skaven warband who purchased the services of Veskit. That was epic to watch Niko peel one of the wounds of Veski off with Silver arrows and then Veskit and Niko duke it out (Niko with Sword of Rezhebel of course) Ultimately I routed to keep Niko alive... I just thought that my luck couldn't hold.

I still think a Witch Hunters played the right way is incredibly hard to deal with. Elf Ranger, Kislev Hunter and a Arabian Merchant... throw in a little haggle and streetwise and you will have Ithilmar,Gromil armor and weapons and whatever other sorts of devastation you choose in short order. (The flail wielding Flagellants that surely become your lad don't hurt either)
That's a subject for another thread.

I agree that the Priest adds great flavor, Gc to power, I think a champion is probably better long term. I will still probably use the priest, I have a nice model and he is just about done with the painting.
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Fri 1 Jan 2010 - 7:58

Nastyogre wrote:
The companion does kick some tail (pun intended) early on.

Middenheimer's being the weakest warband? Really? 3 Guys St4? (discounting the Wolf Priest at the moment and taking a regular champion)
The ability for them to take out and drop opponents is wonderful. I like to employ the Norse concept of a shield bearer (or man). Some warrior with a shield and sword that takes that first charge that might head the way of the champion.
Then the champ rolls in a beats the tar out of whatever happens to be in the way.

ST isn't easy to come by and to start with a stat that is at the human max gets you all the closer to rolling at the scores you really want.

Yea, to be honest I'm not totally sure the Middenheimers are the weakest warband. I do think if you were to rank the warbands that the Middenheimers would be pretty close to the bottom, but that said, Middenheimers can still beat just about anybody, as you have illustrated and I already know. That Middenheim can beat anybody is really more of a game balance and design issue, and speaks volumes to the quality of Mordheim as a balance game with different factions.

I think the reason Middenheim is considered so weak is because, compared to the Reiklanders and Marienburgers, 3 heroes with +1 strength, doesn't really equal +1 BS marksmen or an exxtra 100 gc at the beginning of the campaign. Reikland and Marienburg can give all their heroes +2 strength for 15 gc with a flail or a double handed weapon, and the strongman skill will negate the negative of using double handed weapons. It's not hard to purchase a double handed weapon, or get strongman.

Hence, how is Middenheim's bonus of +1 strength for three guys really a bonus when other mercenaries and most other warbands can get a bonus of +2 strength by spending a couple bucks? I'd rather have the +1 BS or the 100 gc and just buy a few double handed weapons and get some skills then give +1 strength for three guys.
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Fri 1 Jan 2010 - 8:22

It's impossible for any Marienburger but the Captain and ladded Henchmen from getting Strongman, as their Champions/Youngbloods can't get Strength skills. That's why my Marienburgers now go for being shooty, well-equiped warbands. The Marienburger gc bonus only helps to begin with (though it's quite the bump), and the rarity bonus only helps when sufficient wyrdstone/gc is found, so they have to keep their eye on that prize.

However, the Middenheimer Strength bonus is purely an additional advance, easily caught up with by all warbands given a few games. It's hard for a single warrior to get that Strength advance, but it's easy for some warriors in every warband to get it. Now, Middenheimers can all get Strength skills, which allows them to further capatilize on that in a way Marienburgers can't match, but all of the heroes have to roll the right advances to really make it matter.

Reiklanders definitely come out on top - their three best heroes can get Strength skills, and they have unmatched advantages with their Captain and Marksmen.

Yeah, we've seen that the Middenheimers can pull it out, with the right rolls. To me, this doesn't speak to the balance of the official game, but the randomness. These two aspects of a game are not the same. I think we've finally found a good actual balance in the rules we're using - we'll see whether that's true after our next campaign.
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Fri 1 Jan 2010 - 14:49

Are you using the Mordheim 2.1 rules then?
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PostSubject: Re: Middenheimer Wolf Priest? Is he worth it?   Sat 2 Jan 2010 - 16:01

I've looked at the others' modifications, but we've come up with our own, based largely on other work. It's at http://sites.google.com/site/wyldhaunt/games-workshop/mordheim.
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