HomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsBlogLog inGolden Tom 2014 Thread!

Share | 
 

 Rabbits Foot

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Dart82
Hero
Hero


Posts : 25
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-29
Age : 32
Location : Brisbane, Australia

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Averlanders Averlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Rabbits Foot   Mon 6 Jul 2009 - 20:43

Rabbit's Foot (A02 87); 10 gc; Availability: Rare 5
The rabbit's foot is a symbol of good luck and often worn about the neck on a thin cord of leather by superstitious warriors. A rabbit's foot allows the warrior wearing it to re-roll one dice during the battle. If not used in the battle, it can be used to re-roll one dice during the Exploration phase, providing the hero is able to search through the ruins


Cathayan Silk Clothes (RB 39); 50+2D6; Availability: gc Rare 9
Some rich warband leaders like to flaunt their wealth and purchase clothes made out of silk from distant Cathay. This silk is the most expensive fabric in the known world, and wearing such clothes is a sure way to attract attention especially thieves and assassins! Any Mercenary warband whose leader is wearing silk clothes may re-roll the first failed Rout test. However, after each battle in which the leader is taken out of action, roll a D6. On a roll of 1-3 the clothes are ruined and must be discarded.


I played a game against a guy who had Rabbits Foot for his leader. My leader has Cathayan Silk Robes which allows one failed Rout Test re-roll. He used his Rabbits Foot to re-roll one dice for Routing, and subsequently did not rout.

I believe its illogical to be able to use a Rabbits Foot for routing re-roll for a couple of reasons.

1. You can get lucky hitting and wounding but routing doesn't seem like its 'lucky'
2. Percentage wise the Rabbits Foot is about as good as the Robes when re-rolling a failed Rout test. (I could go on about the % but I wont)
3. The Cathayan Silk Robes are expensive for a failed re-roll - the Rabbits Foot is cheaper and you can not only re-roll anything during the game but you can also re-roll an exploration dice. It doesn't seem like the Robes are better than the Rabbits foot in any way.
4. Routing is one of the most important rolls in the game - you pay good money not to rout and get good skills to prevent routing - not 10 gold for a Rabbits Foot.

What do you guys think the Rabbits Foot should be used for??
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dulu
Captain
Captain


Posts : 68
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-07-04
Age : 29
Location : Baltimore, MD

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Sisters of Sigmar Sisters of Sigmar
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Mon 6 Jul 2009 - 20:57

My view:


A 'Rabbit's Foot' is available to every warband.

Silk Clothes are available only to 'Mercenary Warbands' if I understand the description correctly.


You can purchase both: Use the Silk Clothes to re-roll the first failed Rout Test, and use the Rabbit's Foot to re-roll one dice from the second failed Rout Test.

That is the way I see it anyway. One is the generic item, and the Silk Clothes are a 'Special' item, available only to Mercenaries.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 7018
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Mon 6 Jul 2009 - 21:13

Sell the Silks and...
buy a Rabbits Foot and thou wilt be healthy, wealthy and wise...
buy yourself a Holy Relic...
buy yourself a War Horn...

Shoot/hack the bastard with the Rabbits Foot enough that he has to use it to avoid injury...

Novel problem though I'll give you that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Nastyogre
Veteran
Veteran


Posts : 117
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-03-20

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Middenheimers Middenheimers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Mon 6 Jul 2009 - 21:48

Hm it says one dice, which is a contradictory term. It appears to be talking about one "die." Which isn't allowing a re-roll of the check but just one of the dice thrown. This makes it not as good as the Cathayan Silks. Though much much cheaper.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dart82
Hero
Hero


Posts : 25
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-29
Age : 32
Location : Brisbane, Australia

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Averlanders Averlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Mon 6 Jul 2009 - 22:56

Nastyogre wrote:
Hm it says one dice, which is a contradictory term. It appears to be talking about one "die." Which isn't allowing a re-roll of the check but just one of the dice thrown. This makes it not as good as the Cathayan Silks. Though much much cheaper.

In some cases it makes it better than the Silk Robes. If my leadership was 7 and rolled a 2 and a 6 (Cool then I would re-roll the 6. All I would need on that dice is 1 - 5. That makes a 16.6% chance of routing. If I re-rolled both then my chances of routing would be 41.6%. Theres quite a number of situations where rolling one is better.

I'm not too bothered I'll do what was suggested and get Rabbits Foot aswell. Very Happy I'll never rout again!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cianty
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 5274
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2007-09-27
Location : Berlin

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Monks (BTB) Monks (BTB)
Achievements earned: Silver Tom Silver Tom

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 7 Jul 2009 - 1:20

The only question is: Is making a Leadership test for routing a test that is done by the leader himself, or is it more like an overall test that is made by the entire warband using the leader's Ld value? If it is done by the Leader himself, then there is nothing wrong with applying the Rabbit's foot to the Rout roll, as it is his roll. And yes, having the option between re-rolling only one of the two dice (Rabbit's Foot) or both (Silks) is an advantage. It's the same as for spell-casters with Familiars and the 'Mind Focus' skill.

By the way, using logic is rarely an apropriate way to solve these issue Wink But maybe it helps you to think of it like this: The Leader, who is not much of a spokesperson/motivator, this time luckily found the right words to keep his men from routing.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/
slade
Youngblood
Youngblood


Posts : 8
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-06-18
Location : Eugene, OR

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Carnival of Chaos (EIF) Carnival of Chaos (EIF)
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 7 Jul 2009 - 2:16

One is lead to believe that it isn't the leader that makes the test. It says in the rulebook
"A player must make a Rout test at the start of his turn
if a quarter (25%) or more of his warband is out of
action."

Also, models immune to LD tests do not convey that immunity to rout tests.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cianty
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 5274
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2007-09-27
Location : Berlin

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Monks (BTB) Monks (BTB)
Achievements earned: Silver Tom Silver Tom

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 7 Jul 2009 - 2:41

slade wrote:
One is lead to believe that it isn't the leader that makes the test. It says in the rulebook
"A player must make a Rout test at the start of his turn
if a quarter (25%) or more of his warband is out of
action."

Also, models immune to LD tests do not convey that immunity to rout tests.


That is exactly why I left this point open... I totally agree. Unfortunately, if you look at (Un)Holy Relics, their describtion indicates the opposite. Frankly, I have no idea whether a Rabbit's Foot should be usable for Rout tests or not. I guess it should, and Routing should be rewritten to explicitly state that the warband leader (whoever that is in that moment) is making a Rout test with his Leadership and that it is based on calucations that don't allow immune to Psychology or auto-passing Ld test to also count for Rout tests.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/
werekin
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 868
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-06-22
Age : 39
Location : Poole, England

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Norse (Unofficial) Norse (Unofficial)
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 7 Jul 2009 - 10:42

Has anyone noticed that for the bargain price of a Rabbits Foot there is already plenty of bang for your buck!!? Re-rolling one die on a Rout test is taking liberties - the test relates to the player controlling the warband, not the warrior leading the warband.

Holy/Unholy relic does throw a spanner in the works as Christian has highlighted. This questions what was originally intended. I'm inclined to believe that the Holy Relic is just poorly worded. The author is placing emphasis is such a way that he has contradicted himself in error. It's easily done! Rather than overruling the previous statement, the Holy Relic delivers a cool exception to the normal state of play.

Whenever folk realise an outome is distorted, they can become curious about what tricks
can get away with. i.e. anyone who uses a Skaven warband. Wink

Regards,

Werekin.

B-)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.myspace.com/stucrweebo
cianty
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 5274
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2007-09-27
Location : Berlin

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Monks (BTB) Monks (BTB)
Achievements earned: Silver Tom Silver Tom

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 7 Jul 2009 - 11:25

werekin wrote:
Whenever folk realise an outome is distorted, they can become curious about what tricks
can get away with. i.e. anyone who uses a Skaven warband. Wink

LOOL! That Skaven comment totally came out of the blue and is the second time you really made me laugh today, Stu. Laughing

Now I'll ask the neighbours for some coffee... Wink

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/
Da Bank
Rules Guru
Rules Guru


Posts : 1866
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2008-01-26

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 7 Jul 2009 - 14:58

The UnHoly Relic really proves that the Undead must take route tests, then why have one if they didn't?

A route test is not included in the "whole immune to psychology" thing. It is a distinct and seperate part of the game that can not be avoided.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dart82
Hero
Hero


Posts : 25
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-29
Age : 32
Location : Brisbane, Australia

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Averlanders Averlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 7 Jul 2009 - 18:01

werekin wrote:

Whenever folk realise an outome is distorted, they can become curious about what tricks
can get away with. i.e. anyone who uses a Skaven warband. Wink
B-)

Yeah the guy who did it was skaven.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cianty
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 5274
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2007-09-27
Location : Berlin

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Monks (BTB) Monks (BTB)
Achievements earned: Silver Tom Silver Tom

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 1:16

Dart82 wrote:
werekin wrote:

Whenever folk realise an outome is distorted, they can become curious about what tricks
can get away with. i.e. anyone who uses a Skaven warband. Wink
B-)

Yeah the guy who did it was skaven.

LOL. Seriously?

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/
Dart82
Hero
Hero


Posts : 25
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-29
Age : 32
Location : Brisbane, Australia

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Averlanders Averlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 18:07

Yeah
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 19:47

Ok, this might just be me reading between the lines a little too much but...

My belief is that rout tests are not "leadership tests," even though they are obviously a test based off of the leadership statistic...

Read the description of routing again, and take note that the phrase "leadership test" is never used. Now compare that with nearly every other psychology rule, where the phrase is explicitly used.

Assuming that rout tests are not "leadership tests" makes it obvious that models which always pass leadership tests, such as Darksouls, can still fail rout tests. Also the strange wording of the holy relic makes more sense when you realize it is referring to two different but similar tests! Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
cianty
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 5274
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2007-09-27
Location : Berlin

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Monks (BTB) Monks (BTB)
Achievements earned: Silver Tom Silver Tom

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Fri 10 Jul 2009 - 1:00

I agree. The problem I see with the wording is here:

"A model with a holy relic will automatically pass the first Leadership test he is required to make in the game. If worn by the leader, it will allow him to automatically pass the first Rout test if he has not taken any Leadership tests before."

That's the problem: "...allow him..." Normally I would be inclined to say a Rout test is "warband's test" not a "model's test" and it only uses the Leader's Ld value. But the wording of the relic indicates that it is the leader who takes the test. Comparing this wording with that of the Rabbit's Foot it's hard to deny the re-roll.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/
Dart82
Hero
Hero


Posts : 25
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-29
Age : 32
Location : Brisbane, Australia

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Averlanders Averlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Mon 27 Jul 2009 - 21:20

Sorry to re-open this topic but what exactly can you use a Rabbits Foot for? It says you are allowed to roll one dice per game, and that would be for one hero. Are we talking everything? Searching for rare items, crit tables, heroes serious injury, searching for treasure, campaign bonuses (we have the pit as one of our territory bonuses, can we re-roll if we die?), and the list goes on and on..
There has to be a limit, otherwise this is the best item in the game.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
catferret
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 508
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-08-10

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Kislevites Kislevites
Achievements earned:

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Mon 27 Jul 2009 - 21:35

The model with the Rabbit's Foot can reroll any one dice roll they make during the battle, whether it is a to-hit, to wound, critical roll, or whatever other dice roll they make. It can not affect anything prior to or after the game (such as serious injuries, rarity rolls, etc) with the exception of an Exploration roll made by that hero (as stated in the item description). As the hero with the Foot may only reroll his own dice, you must specify which of the exploration dice is his prior to rolling them.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FKSN
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 257
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-07-21
Age : 35
Location : Gefle, Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Rabbit's feet   Sun 23 Aug 2009 - 13:47

From the annual 2002 'ye olde curiosity shoppe' article:
Quote :



  • Rabbit's Foot (A02 87); 10 gc;
    Availability: Rare 5
    The
    rabbit's foot is a symbol of good luck and often worn about the neck on
    a thin cord of leather by superstitious warriors. A rabbit's foot
    allows the warrior wearing it to re-roll one dice during the battle. If
    not used in the battle, it can be used to re-roll one dice during the
    Exploration phase, providing the hero is able to search through the
    ruins.
I read this as: It's one use, but you still have the item and can sell it after it's used. Am I reading it right? That's how we've been playing it at least Razz

The slice of our local mordheim community that played today, came to the consensus that this item should be stricken from the records, on the grounds of being a no-brainer choice to stock up on whenever you have rarity rolls you haven't used on anything else.

If you were aware of it, allow it in play, and don't stock up on at least moderate amounts of rabbit's feet for every game - Why aren't you?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
aegrist13
Hero
Hero


Posts : 33
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-07-15
Age : 41
Location : Dallas, Georgia

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Witch Hunters Witch Hunters
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sun 23 Aug 2009 - 14:19

I've never seen it as one use. My group uses the Rabbit's Foot as a sort-of fail safe. It's there if you need it but you don't have to use it. Besides, so many items give you a re-roll to something, this is just a general re-roll.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://agamerspov.blogspot.com
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 7018
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sun 23 Aug 2009 - 14:25

It is one use only during a game. It may be used to re-roll one die during the game or 1 die in the exploration phase.

Thus in your next game you may use it again as above. It never runs out of luck. There is no need to buy new ones every game given the wording of the rule.

Yes it is a no brainer and yes everyone who can stocks up on it. I do not really understand banning it for these reasons, but the PETA folks are pretty upset about it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FKSN
Warlord
Warlord


Posts : 257
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-07-21
Age : 35
Location : Gefle, Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sun 23 Aug 2009 - 14:59

It's specifically the exploration reroll that sits wrong with me. As a little sidenote, it adds the optimum result you can get by jumping through a lot more hoops and/or spending a lot more gold via a wyrdstone pendulum, a mordheim map or the wyrdstone hunter skill. I guess it's the feeling that this item makes all those 3 more or less obsolete, that's got me all shifty-eyed Suspect

The thing I don't like about no-brainer choices is that they have a tendency to kill variety. There's so much cool width and depth to this game, I consider it a worthwhile crusade to help muddy the optimal path a bit Razz
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Von Kurst
Distinguished Poster
Distinguished Poster


Posts : 7018
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2009-01-18

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sun 23 Aug 2009 - 15:41

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sun 23 Aug 2009 - 19:56

Can we merge both these threads into one?

My current house rules do not allow you to re-roll exploration dice with a rabbits foot. As many have stated, it is simply too good for money making for a rare 5, 10 gold item and cuts into the territory of similar items.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
cianty
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 5274
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2007-09-27
Location : Berlin

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Monks (BTB) Monks (BTB)
Achievements earned: Silver Tom Silver Tom

PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Mon 24 Aug 2009 - 1:24

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
Can we merge both these threads into one?

Definately.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Today at 13:13

Back to top Go down
 
Rabbits Foot
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Rabbits Foot
» OOps I put my foot in my Mouth
» Body & Foot Scrubber - crochet
» Duck Foot Ivy
» FAMILY LIVES IN 350 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE-WATCH VIDEO

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum :: General Discussion :: Rules and Gameplay-
Jump to: