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Hobbit
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sat 19 Sep 2009 - 16:23

I realise it is a newbie question, but I am a newbie so, can you have more than one rabbit's foot (on the same model)?
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Gobbo Freak
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sat 19 Sep 2009 - 17:00

No question is ever a newbie Q.

If you really want to, but it doesn't give you additional re-rolls. (So technically, no )


Quote :
You can purchase both: Use the Silk Clothes to re-roll the first failed Rout Test, and use the Rabbit's Foot to re-roll one dice from the second failed Rout Test

You can never re-roll a die that has already been re-rolled before
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sun 20 Sep 2009 - 0:23

This is true but it doesn't prevent using two rabbit's feet in different situations. Actually, right now I can't find anything in the rules forbidding the use of multiples. It never occured to us to do it - probably because you can only have one Lucky Charm (or better put: only one Lucky Charm is effective, multiples become worthless since they trigger on the same hit*).


*Actually, when LCs still auto-prevented the first hit, more than one were useless indeed (since there's only ever one first hit during a battle). However, when the rules were changed to prevent the hit on a 4+ only, the following sentence from the official ruling

"Owning two or more charms does not confer any extra benefits, the model may still only try to discard the first hit."

is not true, as multiple Lucky Charms would indeed confer extra benefits: If you fail the 4+ roll on the first Lucky Charm, then you could still roll for the second, or third, or fourth... So buying multiple Charms would increase the chances of preventing the hit. So now it does make sense to buy multiple ones. And if there's nothing in the Rabbit's rules restricting the use to one item, then why not buy more?

Seriously though, don't use more than one Lucky Charm and one Foot. It would be really ridiculous. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sun 20 Sep 2009 - 8:58

Well, if a modeller wants to go completely WYSIWYG and cover his model in a coat made of rabbit's feet, making sure that he's paid the 10gc per foot and hit the rarity rolls, I might just let him be called "Lucky Jake" and get away with it... It's no worse than an Augur's Blessed Sight. Heh, maybe this would be a new item: "Rabbit's Feet Coat" - rarity 12 (just because it's so ridiculous), cost: 200gc, allows the wearer to reroll each failed roll during scenarios (of course, the result of any second roll must be accepted).

And for the Lucky Charms: Beni's Necklace of Fortune, rarity: 12 (less rare in Khemri*; also add to Arabian Merchant's list), cost: 50gc, allows the wearer to discard the first hit during every scenario on a D6 roll of 2+.

*Hopefully you all recognize the reference to 1999's The Mummy here...

We've also house-ruled Rabbit's Feet back to scenario-only rerolls. Let Wyrdstone Hunter, Wyrdstone Pendulum, etc. take their rightly place for Exploration rolls.
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hero
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Sun 20 Sep 2009 - 14:54

You know, I always saw rout tests as showing the warband leader's ability to convince his fighters (through charismatic speeches, threats, etc.) to stick around when things were getting dicey. which definitely qualifies as leadership.

It also explains why being immune to psychology doesn't affect the rout test. No matter how stoic your leader is your henchmen are still thinking for themselves (usually!) and their survival, and if your leaders rallying cry doesn't fill them with a fiery passion for victory they will probably flee.
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Mon 25 Oct 2010 - 15:06

This is how all this shakes out to me.

1. A Rabbit's Foot allows the possessing warrior to reroll a die that they have rolled.
-- Rolls made by other allied warriors or an opponents warriors cannot be affected.

2. If a Route Test is being Rolled against a particular warriors Leadership value and that warrior is in possession of a Rabbit's Foot then one of the two dice can be rerolled.
-- A Route test, while not a leadership test per se, is rolled against a particular models leadership stat, thus implying a sufficient degree of responsibility for the roll to invoke the use of a Rabbit's Foot.
-- Route test usually use a Leader's Leadership value but if he is stunned or out of action then it falls to the model with highest leadership that is still standing/conscious. Ergo it could vary easily matter if the Route Test falls on a warrior with a Rabbit's Foot and whether that warrior has already consumed his luck during the game before the roll.

3. Warriors may use their Rabbit's Foot reroll during the exploration phase.
-- To use their reroll they must be capable of exploring, in order to explore they must have fought in the battle and must not have been taken out of action. A warrior who fights an entire battle without feeling the need to call upon the luck of his furry foot is lucky indeed.
-- Rerolls cannot be rerolled, thus the impact of exploration rerolls is truly a diminishing return function if normal distribution is assumed.
--Since only six exploration dice can be kept the effect of exploration rerolls is constrained further.

4. The possession of additional Rabbit's Feet should not confer additional rerolls.
-- Much like an additional sword does not allow an additional parry or a second bow allow you to shoot twice during the shooting phase the magic of a second Rabbit's Foot does not play nice with the magic of the first.
-- Indeed a Rabbit's Foot should be considered a helmet of fate, and you only ever wear one helmet.

*Possible House Rule*
X. Luck vs. Counter Luck -- A warrior equipped with a Rabbit's Foot should be allowed to spend their reroll to cancel the effect of another Rabbit's Foot reroll that is being taken against them.
--This should be used in the spirit of two warriors and their respective fates battling, if the reroll is not a contest between the two models then the cancel should not be allowed.
--This could serve to increase the likelihood of Rabbit's Foot rerolls being consumed in battle and allaying the concerns over exploration rerolls.


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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 26 Oct 2010 - 0:12

What is all this talk of rabbit's feet *replacing* wyrdstone pendulums and wyrdstone hunter and the like? Madness! In the circle I play in, if you can get both, you get both at the earliest opportunity. There are *lots* of dice to roll during the exploration phase - one can easily go through more than 6 rerolls during the phase. Off the top of my head the most you could go through is 9 rerolls, but possibly more.

Besides, if you have wyrdstone hunter *and* a pendulum *and* a rabbit's foot then that means you can almost definitely afford to use the rabbit's foot during combat rather than trying to save it for the exploration phase.

Note also that the exploration phase rerolls are not tied to that warrior's dice any more than the wyrdstone hunter or wyrdstone pendulum ones are.
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Krashlandon
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 26 Oct 2010 - 1:22

Correct me if I am wrong, but Wyrdstone Amulets and Wyrdstone Hunter are tied to the warriors that have them since those warriors with them that were taken out of action cannot use their rerolls. So why would Rabbit's Foot rerolls be any different?
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 26 Oct 2010 - 3:01

Krashlandon wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong
As you wish. You are wrong Smile.

Wyrdstone Hunter wrote:
If a Hero with this skill is searching the ruins in the exploration phase you may re-roll one dice when rolling on the Exploration chart.

Wyrdstone Pendulum wrote:
If he was not taken out, the Hero using the pendulum may take a leadership test after the battle. If he is successful you may reroll any one dice in the exploration phase

As you can see, neither of them mention *their* dice in their specific rules. Indeed, the pendulum specifically says it is *any* dice. Also, the basic rules make no mention at all that any individual dice is somehow allocated to an individual hero, unlike the rare trade rolls.

I suppose if you really wanted to you could take a more restrictive interpretation if you really wanted to, but since that would increase book-keeping, increase time spent on processing after the game, reduce fun, and *not* decrease brokenness I don't know why you would do that Razz.

They do say you don't get a reroll if you get taken out, but it still doesn't say it is tied to the hero in any way. "You don't get to use this if you are taken out" is not the same as "You can only use this on *your* dice".
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Ordo Septenarius
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 26 Oct 2010 - 9:00

Dart82 wrote:
campaign bonuses (we have the pit as one of our territory bonuses, can we re-roll if we die?)

Just curious, what campaign rules are you using (with territory bonuses)?

Sorry for the off-topic. A link would be appreciated.

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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 26 Oct 2010 - 9:26

@ Lord O
I see your point now, but it is irrelevant to mine. It is true that you can re roll "any" dice, but you don't get a roll if the hero was taken out of action, you also do not get the rerolls from Wyrdstone Pendulum or Wyrdstone Hunter if the Hero with them is taken out of action. So while the rolls you make in exploration are not tied to specific heroes, the total number of dice rolled in exploration and the total number of rerolls is tied to the pool of heroes doing the exploring, not counting any additional dice from game effects like winning. And since you cannot reroll a reroll the dice having more rerolls than dice rolled is pointless.

So my point is that a Rabbit's Foot should work exactly like Wyrdstone Pendulum or Wyrdstone Hunter in that if the Hero is taken out of action they do not get to use it during exploration.

Also, where were you getting the idea that I was suggesting you tie individual rolls during exploration to specific Heroes? I have reread my post and I never make such a suggestion.

As an aside the phrase "correct me if I am wrong" means just that, a request for correction, something informative and pertinent to the statement not a snotty admonishment of "you are wrong".
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 26 Oct 2010 - 10:22

Krashlandon is right the re-roll is connected the hero and if the hero cannot seach the warband cannot use the re-roll. The only one that I know of that doesn't have that issue is Tarot cards. Read below:

Town Cryer 2002 Annual p. 16
Wyrdstone Pendulum 25 3d6 gc Rare 9

Special Rules: If he was not taken out, the Hero using the Wyrdstone Pendulum may make a leadership test after the battle. If he is successful, you may re-roll any one dice in the exploration phase.

Town Cryer 2002 Annual p. 87
Rabbit’s Foot 10 gc rarity 5

A rabbit’s foot allows the warrior wearing it to re-roll one dice during the battle. If not used I the battle, it can be used to re-roll one dice during the Exploration phase, providing the hero is able to search through the ruins.

Town Cryer 2002 Annual p. 16
Tarot Cards 50 gc Rare 7

Special Rules: A Hero with a Deck of Tarot Cards may consult them before each game. Make a Leadership test. If successful, the hero gains a favorable insight into the future and you may modify the result of any one dice in the Exploration phase by -1/ 1 (even if the Hero with the cards is taken out of action). If the Leadership test is failed by three or more (ie, a Hero with LD of 8 rolls 11 or 12) the cards show a portent of doom and despair and the Hero refuses to fight in the following battle and must miss the next game.

So Rabbit's foot is cheaper, more common, more flexible and doesn't need a leadership check to work. For the price of 1 Wyrdstone Pendulum I can usually buy 3 rabbit's feet. I mean it is silly how much better it is.
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 26 Oct 2010 - 14:39

Krashlandon wrote:
@ Lord O ... where were you getting the idea that I was suggesting you tie individual rolls during exploration to specific Heroes? I have reread my post and I never make such a suggestion.

Sorry, I misinterpreted. Catferret was the first to mention that exploration dice are specifically tied to an individual hero and that exploration dice needed to be specifically allocated to the warrior because of that. When you said that the items were tied to the bearer I thought you were supporting Catferret's statement* that the rerolls were tied to the individual heroes.

I am sorry you interpreted my reply as "snotty", I can assure you that was not my intent and I thought I was showing that by the use of emoticons.

For future reference, what emotictons should I be using on this board use to indicate a light-hearted tone?

I agree with the position that the rerolls for Rabbit's foot, pendulum, and Wyrdstone hunter are all only available if the hero with them did not go out of action and that none of the rerolls granted are tied to a specific hero.

*
catferret wrote:
As the hero with the Foot may only reroll his own dice, you must specify which of the exploration dice is his prior to rolling them.
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PostSubject: Re: Rabbits Foot   Tue 26 Oct 2010 - 16:38

I think the confusion is based on having more than 7 rerolls when in theory that is the most dice you could roll. You mentioned earlier that your group allows rerolls on any dice dependent rolls granted by doubles on your exploration. Which seems like a fair interpretation, given that you're allowed to reroll a die "in the exploration phase", it never says it has to be one of the initial dice rolled for gathering wyrdstone.
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