Parry House rule idea

As the title say, The Mordheim core book states that you can't parry any hit if there's a single 6 rolled, as you always got to parry the highest roll. So a million 4s and then one 6, tough luck, you're getting a million and one hit rather than just a round million.

My idea, as combat is an ever moving thing than just two guys looking at each other, taking a single swing or two, then waiting, is to keep that 'can't parry a 6 to hit' rule, but remove the part about not being allowed to parry any other attacks.

I tried it a few times, in fact, I always played like that (sorta accidentally by not reading that book as well as I should have had.) and it doesn't really affect the game, if only makes it more exiting, as you get to parry more often!


I admit, a Merc Warband with Swordsmen, bucklers and swords sorta seems adventaged by this, but as other warbands have WS4 warriors and access to swords, it's not something unique to a particular warband(s).

As I understand your statement: although you cannot stop that masterful thrust (6), you will be able to knock aside the other swing (the 4s). I don't think this would be that odd if your group is ok with it.

I would play it as written. Perhaps the certainty of the masterful thrust landing makes you flinch, recoil, scream, etc.

We've played with that rule for quite some time and I agree that it works very well. This does however force you to alter the "Master of Blades" rule, unless of course you believe it to be strong enough already (we've changed it to a flat 5+ parry).
The problem with the RAW is, that against an opponent with 4 or more attacks, your Sword is practically useless.

In my group we have eliminated the must-parry-the-first-attack rule also. In addition to that, we also allow *anyone* to parry one attack per weapon that has the Parry special ability. We mostly did this so that there would be a point in dual-wielding two swords.

e.g.:
If you have 1 sword you get 1 parry.
If you have 2 swords you get 2 parries.
If you have 1 sword 1 buckler you get 2 parries and may re-roll your parries.

Morning Stars, Flails, and Whips also have the special rule Cannot Be Parried.

In order to increase the importance of WS we are considering giving parry the same modifiers as hitting i.e. +1 to parry if your WS is greater than your opponent, -1 to parry if your opponent has more than double your WS. Not sure if we will though, parry is already pretty cool.

We did not find we had to enhance Master of Blades at all because the +1 to parry and the ability to reroll the parries without taking a buckler was still very good and worth taking a skill for (nine times out of 10 the skill is taken to be used with dual dwarven axes).

Lord 0, apart from the must-parry-the-first-attack rule and the Morning Stars/Flail can't be parried rules, isn't the one parry per weapon having the parry rule already the RAW? The advantage of using a buckler is the parry re-rolls over gaining an additional attack, but using 2 swords gives you 2 parry.

Must be the "...but two swords can only roll once." turn of phrase that might be in fault here.

Or perhaps make a skill like the duelist's one; you parry rolling under your own WS instead of beating the other guy's roll.

Braddoc wrote:

Must be the "...but two swords can only roll once." turn of phrase that might be in fault here.

Yep, RAW the only way to get 2 parry, is with the Master of Blade skill.

The houserule we use in my group is, to hit roll+WS vs parry roll+WS, this rewards models with high WS, but can get a little powerfull at times.

Lord 0 wrote:

e.g.:
If you have 1 sword you get 1 parry.
If you have 2 swords you get 2 parries.
If you have 1 sword 1 buckler you get 2 parries and may re-roll your parries.

Morning Stars, Flails, and Whips also have the special rule Cannot Be Parried.

I kinda like this, but might get a littel powerfull with the houserule we use already.

Do you find this makes 2 sword+expert swordman a no-brainer or is it still balanced ??

Lord 0 wrote:

In order to increase the importance of WS we are considering giving parry the same modifiers as hitting i.e. +1 to parry if your WS is greater than your opponent, -1 to parry if your opponent has more than double your WS. Not sure if we will though, parry is already pretty cool.

This is also not bad, looking at it, I think it might work really well, remindes me a littel of Deathsquad parry rules... There you parry the lowest to hit roll.

-Skavenslayer

I always read it as such:

1 sword= 1 parry
2 swords= 2 parry, no re-roll, +1 attack
1 sword+buckler= 2 parries, only 1 attack but gain re-roll on failed parry roll.

Master of Blade seemed to be when a Dwarven axe is involved (don't have my info with me at the moment- at work you see)

Quote :

If your model is armed with a buckler and a sword, you may re-roll any failed parries once. A model armed with two swords can still only roll once.

This is the text from the rulebook. I think that Braddoc may have a point. The first sentence says that if your model is armed with a buckler and a sword then you may re-roll any failed parries once. Note that it says parries rather than parry which implies a parry for the sword and a parry for the buckler and you may re-roll either or both parries if they fail. In this context the second sentence then would seem to provide clarity to state that two swords do not allow any re-rolls of failed parries hence providing a reason to purchase a buckler over simply purchasing two swords.

Quote :

A model may not parry more than one attack in a single Close Combat phase; a model armed with two Dwarf axes (or a Dwarf axe and a sword, etc) does not get to parry two attacks but may instead re-roll a failed parry.

The rules for the dwarf axe explicity change the rules that each weapon gets one parry by stating that two dwarf axes allow the failed parry to be re-rolled.

Quote :

In addition, if this warrior is using two weapons that have the Parry special rule, he is allowed to parry two attacks (if his two dice match or beat the two highest Attack dice against him) instead of the normal maximum of one. Note that if this Dwarf has two Dwarf axes (as detailed above) he can re-roll any failed parries.

From my reading the rules for Master of Blades special skill this is the only explicit mention that two weapons do not get two parries. Note though that these rules were published after the core rulebook so either there is ambiguity with the core rulebook or ambiguity in these rules. Considering that parry often gets a bad rap for being undervalued then I'll definitely be changing our group to the (house?) rule that each weapon with the parry rule gets a parry attempt.

Another thought here though is there is also ambiguity within the core rulebook if multiple parries are allowed in regards to when a warrior scores a 6 to hit but the other rolls are successful and lower than a 6. RAW in the core rulebook a single 6 to hit would negate both parries if a warrior could parry twice. Master of blades does not have this trouble though because it allows for the warrior to beat the parry attempt by rolling equal to or under the roll so that a 6 is no longer unbeatable.

Skavenslayer wrote:

Lord 0 wrote:

e.g.:
If you have 1 sword you get 1 parry.
If you have 2 swords you get 2 parries.
If you have 1 sword 1 buckler you get 2 parries and may re-roll your parries.

Morning Stars, Flails, and Whips also have the special rule Cannot Be Parried.

I kinda like this, but might get a littel powerfull with the houserule we use already.

What is the houserule you use?

Skavenslayer wrote:

Do you find this makes 2 sword+expert swordman a no-brainer or is it still balanced ??

Hammers and Maces with their Concussion special rule are still very good and, because we use the +1 Armour Save in melee for shields and bucklers, axes are quite popular too. There *has* been a noticeable increase in people using dual-sword, but since before the change it was almost *never* used, this is for the good.

the only house rule i have given parrying is that bucklers count as +1 to the dice meaning they can parry on equal dice and it seems balanced to me.

We change how our Parry works.

1) A Parry attempt is an attack roll - compare WS and roll as normal (success on 3, 4, or 5, depending on your relative Weapon Skill).

2) You may choose which attack to Parry.

3) Sources of Parry grant you a maximum of ONE Parry attempt. Any sources of "additional parry or parry re-roll" grant you +1 Parry attempt. (So two swords is still one parry attempt, while a sword and buckler are two parries, which can be used against two different attacks or against one attack but re-rolling a failure).

4) You cannot Parry attacks higher at your Strength+2 or higher (so against an equally matched opponent, grab a two-hander!)

Combined with my -2 to off-hand weapon attacks (and ideally something to make strength less overwhelming against armor such as shifting armor reduction to Str5), you'll find people actually struggling to decide whether to stack parry, shields, weapons, or BIG WEAPON in their loadouts. Each has a specific purpose:

Multiple attacks are good against inferior enemies but weak to better skilled fighters, Fear-causers, defensively oriented opponents, or downed opponents. Shields help to get rid of attacks, especially when multiple wounds slip through. Parries are great in a 'duel' situation, where you'll be facing one tremendous fighter who can kill you in a single precise hit - you can eliminate those big hits. And big weapons are great at support or with tough guys who can take a hit with expectation to dish out even worse.