Need Help Fleshing out a Mordheim Event

Don't have much time for the initial post here but I have been thinking about making this post for about six months so here a basic post to give myself a swift kick in the arse.

I have run Mordheim events at my local gaming con (CanGames in Ottawa) and have always found them lacking.

Either the players play multiple rounds in the four hour time frame WITH THE SAME WARBAND COMPOSITION (ie no advancements, no adding warriors, no injuries) or we get two games in with a very long tedious "post game sequence" in between where I try and counsel eight players on good ways to advance heroes, buy warriors and equipment.

It either loses the allure of quick gameplay or the fun of experience based continuity.

I have come up with a way I think will show the players both nicely.  I plan to have eight warbands available in 4-6 incarnations.  After each "round" the players will swap their warband roster for the next in the sequence.  Each will be a bit more powerful than the one before and each "step" will get larger.

My current plan is to advance the warbands as if they had participated (and pretty much won) a number of scenarios equal to each henchman upgrade.  So the incarnations would be; Starting warband; 2 scenarios; 5 scenarios; 9 scenarios, 15 scenarios and Maxxed Out.  

Each player would have a warband roster; flavor page and tips and tricks page for each incarnation.  I am not sure how clearly this is coming across but that would mean for each warband (eight) I would be creating 6 warband rosters, 6 flavor pages and 6 tips and tricks plus probably a race specific skills and abilities quick reference.  So 18 pages 8 times.  I have one warband done so far and want to run this in May.  I was hoping to enlist some help from the community; first in answering some questions, then in feedback on warbands builds at the various incarnations and finally with some help with the flavor pages which are definitely my weak suit.

Ideally once I have it all put together I'd like to make it available to anyone who wants to use it to introduce folks to the City of the Damned.

First questions;

1.  What do you think of the concept?  Will it balance the feel of an continuous advancing warband with the ability to move quickly through multiple scenarios?

2.  What eight Warbands would you recommend if you were doing this.  

3.  If I want to run 3 one on one; and 2 multiplayer scenarios in the event, which five scenarios would you suggest?

4.  Am I crazy trying to pull all this together?

Regards
CobaltEarthgem

cobaltearthgem wrote:

4.  Am I crazy trying to pull all this together?

First, I'm going to answer this: Yes, you are crazy! But this is a great thing; you're motivated to do something to lift up your campaigning, and I can understand that. Boy, I would get tired in your situation.

cobaltearthgem wrote:

1.  What do you think of the concept?  Will it balance the feel of an continuous advancing warband with the ability to move quickly through multiple scenarios?

I believe it will. At least a lot more than now, though I believe advancing warbands as normal is a better experience. Else there will need to be some narrative, that allows players to 'jump forward' in their progress.

I think the best scenario would be, that the players learn to advance their warriors and can do so together (i.e. two players doing it together, or three groups of three, two of four - depending on how much you trust them ) - I think it would be more quick to learn them that, than to make all this work, though it could probably be fun! Anyway, if it works in your situation, go for it!

cobaltearthgem wrote:

2.  What eight Warbands would you recommend if you were doing this.

Well, what do they usually play? What do they like to play? I'd definitely recommending hearing the players out (or is it different players each time?)

My suggestions
Two Mercenaries
Dwarf Treasure Hunters
Beastmen
Orcs & Goblins
Witch Hunters
Possessed
Skaven

cobaltearthgem wrote:

3.  If I want to run 3 one on one; and 2 multiplayer scenarios in the event, which five scenarios would you suggest?

One on one
Occupy
Defend the Find
Chance Encounter

Multiplayer
Wyrdstone Hunt
Treasure Hunt

I would caution against going as far as maxed out warbands, because with that many models and level-ups it will likely be hard for new players to track everything that is going on in their warbands (even with tip sheets, although these would probably help quite a bit)

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4.  Am I crazy trying to pull all this together?

 Crazy is a given.

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2.  What eight Warbands would you recommend if you were doing this.  

What warbands do you have?  I would be inclined to run as many of the basic rulebook warbands as possible.

Are your warbands going to suffer injuries?

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1.  What do you think of the concept?  Will it balance the feel of an continuous advancing warband with the ability to move quickly through multiple scenarios?

I like the idea but I would scale back the advancements to not include really advanced warbands.  A beginning warband, a warband with 3 games, 5 games, 7 games, etc would seem more manageable and educational.

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3.  If I want to run 3 one on one; and 2 multiplayer scenarios in the event, which five scenarios would you suggest?

You have to keep the various scenarios pretty simple, which is kind of a drag since scenarios are a great deal of the fun.

For one on one games I would suggest:
Skirmish
Chance Encounter
Occupy (I hate Occupy in a regular campaign, but it might be a good scenario for your needs.)

When considering Aipha's recommendations I would point out that his group does not use the Chaos in the Streets multiplayer scenarios so he is suggesting the normal scenarios from the book when he says Treasure Hunt and Wyrdstone Hunt. (He plays with a hardy lot. Imagine a multiplayer defend the find..)

Multiplayer games are such a huge time suck that I would avoid them at all costs.

Von Kurst wrote:

When considering Aipha's recommendations I would point out that his group does not use the Chaos in the Streets multiplayer scenarios so he is suggesting the normal scenarios from the book when he says Treasure Hunt and Wyrdstone Hunt.  (He plays with a hardy lot. Imagine a multiplayer defend the find..)

Lies, all lies!

Or well... We do play with the Chaos in the Streets multiplayer (however with some different deployment rules). And yes well, I meant Treasure Hunt ofc. - I just really find it... Skipping where the fence is lowest (danish expression, sorry!), calling it Treasure Hunt and claiming it to be different than Wyrdstone Hunt. And yes, we have played Defend the Find a lot of times multiplayer (with the highest rated warband defending), but we've went over to just Wizard's Mansion... ahem. Not much better, but well, at least the reward is a bit (much) higher! But we're not doing Defend the Find multiplayer anymore, because well, SOMEONE was right; it was ermm... over the top

Von Kurst wrote:

Multiplayer games are such a huge time suck that I would avoid them at all costs.

Well, they are very much in the beginning, but when people get used to them, they're not longer than 1v1 (if you measure time spent pr. player). That does of course mean though, that 4 players would still be able to finish two games 1v1 instead of one game 1v1v1v1, so in that way they are slower. But I think it just adds an interesting layer to the game; we usually play 3/4 players. 3 is just a bit skewed though, while 4 is the most optimal number imo.

Let me start by apologizing for the length of this post.
I have been playing Mordheim for about 14 years now and the part of the game I was drawn to was earning the XP points and leveling. Taking that out of the game doesn’t seem like a great idea to me. What I see happening with the jump from one roster to the next is a lot of time reading to figure out what all the new stuff is, which could be about the same amount of time it would take to do a regular XP advance and buying new members/equipment post game between one round and the next. Avoid multiplayer games at all costs during an event. They take way to long and have too much down time for those involved.
I have run Mordheim events at Gen Con for the last four years and am greatly looking forward to doing so again this year. I have had at least six return players each year, and even a father who brought his son and friends to join in after playing the previous year. I run four events over three days, with 10 players during each event. Each event is scheduled for six hours, or they can quit early, but that doesn’t usually happen. I started with 10 warband choices available, then went to 13, and I am looking to add two more for this year. I also have plenty of extra models for each warband for players to spend GC on. Each warband has a folder which contains the warband creation list, quick reference sheet of the special rules each warband has (i.e. warband max size, Fear, Undead, Large Target…) and one for weapons, post game sequence, and all the necessary charts and quick reference sheets from the back of the rule book, and then a premade roster sheet.
I start with a verbal explanation of the rules and all the turn steps, and then a visual explanation with some preset situations on one of the tables. Players then choose which warband they want and pick a spot at one of five tables to familiarize themselves with the models and the roster. This all takes about 30 – 45 minutes. Everyone plays the Skirmish scenario first (it’s much easier if all tables are the same scenario) and I end games early if needed, picking a winner based on casualties and what I see on the table, so that everyone goes thru post battle at the same time. I give advise, nudging people towards certain choices, to keep things moving, and then everyone chooses a new opponent and moves on to Chance Encounter, plays and does post battle mostly by themselves, then repeats with another scenario and so on.
Players have been getting in three games, some four, in the 6 hours time frame. I do not allow Hired Swords, unless someone rolls triple 6’s during exploration, and last year I introduced a couple more rules: everyone gets five reroll tokens and no heroes can die. The reroll tokens are for henchman that die, heroes that end up missing games, or for other unfortunate events. Also, if any game ends rather quickly and the players choose to setup and play again, and end up playing two games to everyone else’s one, then I award the other eight players extra XP and GC for only getting in one game.
This has proven to work out rather well for everyone, and calling games early seems to be the way to keep things moving so people aren’t sitting around forever waiting to play again and keeps them happy.
Hoping this may help. I can send some of my folder information if you are interested.

First I would like to thank everyone who has read this thread and replied. I appreciate all the feedback especially the confirmation that I have lost my mind

The idea of doing the advances ahead of time is not to take the advances AWAY from the players but rather to show what effect the advances have on the warbands. With only four hour slots to work with I really want to maximize the number of games that can be played. The experience level of the players I have had over the years varies from Mordheim enthusiasts to casual boardgamers who have never touched a wargaming mini, heavily weighted on the inexperienced end. The advancement sessions I have had ever the years have taught me that I cannot get more than two games and two post game sequences in a four hour slot.

The multiplayer scenario has been something I have used to wrap up the slot in the past and so far it has been very well recieved, I have used a variation of Treasure Hunt where the treasure tokens had a chance being a treasure, a trap or a pair of Zombies.

The eight warbands I have prepped are Dwarf Treasure Hunters; Orc Mob; Middenheimers; Marienburgers; Witch Hunters; Sisters of Sigmar; Skaven and Undead. So pretty much Aipha's suggestions except SoS instead of Beastmen. That being said I have models to be able to field pretty much any warband I want; I have been throwing interesting metal and plastic modelsin a box for years I now have a bankers box more than 80% full.

As an example the tips sheet for the Dwarf Treasure Hunters going from the opening warband to the two scenario incarnation would include the following information.

The Dwarf Noble has gained a Weapon Skill advancement and found a Jeweled Sword, so he gave her sword to the Engineer.

The Dwarf Engineer has suffered a Hand Wound which reduced her Weapon Skill, has the Sword given to her by the Noble and has replaced her dagger with a Jeweled version.

Both Troll Slayers gained skills; Anasha gained Resilient to make her harder to wound and Azrin gained Master of Blades to become more dangerous in combat. The heroes spend some time tracking down a pair of Dwarf Axes to increase her deadliness.

Joining the ranks of the Heroes is Bailey Silverbell, raised from the Thunderer Henchmen who has gained Quickshot with her shiny new Crossbow.

The Henchman Group Bailey was raised from advanced their Ballistic Skill, the other increased their Strength. The Beardling grew up a bit and increased her Leadership.

A new inexperienced Thunderer joined the warband.

All the Thunderers now have crossbows so use that to your advantage to keep the faster warbands at bay.

If you read all that carefully you can see I do plan on assigning a few injuries as time goes by. The Maxed Out version of the Treasure Hunters in fact only has The Engineer and one of the Slayers left of the five heroes on the two scenario version the others having succumbed to wounds.

When I get another evening free I will start a new thread itemizing the 6 incarnations of the Dwarf Treasure Hunters. And framing the transition Tip Sheets...

Thanks again for your time and attention!

chadwicc wrote:

I have been playing Mordheim for about 14 years now and the part of the game I was drawn to was earning the XP points and leveling. Taking that out of the game doesn’t seem like a great idea to me.

I totally agree to your post. I also love Mordheim so much because of its roleplay elements, the stories the battles tell, the rivalries which are developing and also because the tragedies but also tales of glorified heroism you can remember for a long time.

I also like your campaign events and I really would like to read more about them. Do you also play in this campaign or are you more in a supervising role?

I am interest also, to find out how you cut the games short.

Mordheim battles can be very fast but also sometimes are going for hours.This is something I would like to mitigate. Smaller playing areas may help, less buildings with endless different ways may also help ( although i love to have buildings with many planks and additional ways to walk on high up in the air)

So thank you for our input on that.

To the orginal poster.

I understand your idea, but as I wrote above, the roleplay elements are very important in my opinion. Maybe to guide the players through the afterbattle may help here. If you set a time limit on that, it could be faster. Sometimes the player need some tipps which skill they should take or what they should buy, which you could provide to them, but I think it is better when they decide on their own.

Nevertheless how you decide I would really love to see some description and pictures of your event.