2 Wardog question

Hi gents

we are playing a campaign and one of the gangs got a free "Wardog" and now 2 questions arose.

Wardogs count towards the maximum number of warriors allowed in your warband but are treated as equipment of the hero who bought/found it.

Thus said the questions are (as I did not find any FAQ answering them):

1)
Does the wardog count for calculating the number of warriors when selling Wyrdstone ?
Do not answer with simple YES/NO as there is lot of room for discussion . Give an explaination with your answer

2)
Does the wardog count for calculating the total sum of XP per warband as here each gang member gives 5 XP.
Do not answer with simple YES/NO as there is lot of room for discussion . Give an explaination with your answer


Would be glad to get your opinions, rule explainatios, interpretations or rule passages for the same (if you have one)

Regards
Claus

hello!

Quote :

If you purchase a wardog, it will fight exactly like a
member of your warband, though it is treated as part
of the equipment of the Hero who bought it.

Wardog is a piece of equipment (only living and nasty) like a sword or lucky charm. It takes a henchmen slot but it's not a henchman. And as such it doesn't count for: rout tests, wyrdstone selling and total xp for rating.
So generally "no" nor both questions.
Hope thtat helps!

I'm not sure I agree.
What about Witch hunters' wardogs, Beastmen Chaos Hounds, Skaven Giant rats and all the other "animals" out there? A wardog, found or bought, will represent an animal in the warband all the same.

The wording in the rulebook states:

"If you purchase a Wardog, it will fight exactly like a member of your warband, though it is treated as part of the equipment of the Hero who bought it. You will need a model to represent it on a battlefield.

Wardogs never gain experience, and if they are put out of action they have exactly the same chance of recovering as Henchmen (i.e., 1-2: Dead; 3-6: Alive). Wardogs count towards the maximum number of warriors allowed in your warband."

I agree that it doesn't say exactly that the animal is a henchman, however it doesn't say that its not either.
This is one of the classic rulebook problems in this game
Still i would argue that since warbands with access to animals, treat these as members in all aspects (unless i am gravely mistaken) so should warbands who get their hands on animals in other manners.

Hope it helps

Stronzo wrote:

I'm not sure I agree.
What about Witch hunters' wardogs, Beastmen Chaos Hounds, Skaven Giant rats and all the other "animals" out there? A wardog, found or bought, will represent an animal in the warband all the same.

They are specific warband henchmen in their own rights. And besides witch hunters got "warhounds" not "wardogs" Wording is important in Mordheim! (also skaven can't have them)

Stronzo wrote:

I agree that it doesn't say exactly that the animal is a henchman, however it doesn't say that its not either.
Still i would argue that since warbands with access to animals, treat these as members in all aspects (unless i am gravely mistaken) so should warbands who get their hands on animals in other manners.

No, I'm afraid it exactly says that it's a part of equipment - so no henchmen. Rulebook doesn't say that they are henchmen group like hired swords nor they are true members of warband.

Quote :

If you purchase a Wardog, it will fight exactly like a member of your warband, though it is treated as part of the equipment of the Hero who bought it

My reasoning of course

I believe calling them equipment is pretty much the same as caling them "not henchmen". Also, if they were henchmen, ecplicitely stating that they fight and recover like henchmen would be unnecessary. So there is a difference between wardogs that can be drafted as henchmen (witchhunters) and those that can be bought as equipment. So I'd answer both questions in the first post with NO. I don't say the rules are smart or that there shouldn't be houserules. I just interpret the ones in the LRB.

Thank you gentlemen for your feedbacks so far.

We had pretty much the same discussions in our group.

Regards
Claus

Just keep in mind that if Ostlanders are playing, whatever you decide will impact them. As it would normally stand, Ostlanders with 2 non-ogre TLGT heroes could end up with a 27 man warband with 12 wardogs that 'don't count', meaning rout tests, xp, wyrdstone rates are unaffected by nearly a whole extra animal warband.

I personally would count them for rout tests, but nothing else. While 5xp and 5-10 gold isn't that much, having extra meat to throw up as fodder without risking rout tests is a huge advantage. Imagine a min/max Ostlander crew that can throw 12 dogs at you and laugh as they don't need to roll routs.

Until I could afford to use Dire Wolves as fodder, my undead warband used wardogs whenever they could find them.

If the hero who "carries" the "equipment" (aka dog) is killed or robbed the wardog is gone too, because he is equipment. You have to roll for it and it costs more than the corresponding animals in other warbands. The wardog is special.

I would count him against maximum size (like the rules), against rout tests and rating (he is a modell on the table), but not against the selling costs (he ist equipment of a hero, the hero has to feed and care for him from his "share" of the loot).

Quote :

They are specific warband henchmen in their own rights. And besides witch hunters got "warhounds" not "wardogs" Wording is important in Mordheim! (also skaven can't have them)

Consistency of language is not something the authors of Mordheim understood. The wardog has the same stats as the warhound. If it walks like a duck...
Skaven can have giant rats, which count as henchmen as far as warband rating, etc.

Finally I while focusing on the first part of their rule certainly proves that wardogs are equipment it does not negate the second part of the rule.

Quote :

Wardogs count towards the maximum number of warriors allowed in your warband.

So I answer #1 with a YES.

In the original rulebook horses and warhorses were discussed on the same page. They are animals and also may be purchased as equipment. The entries for these animals told you how much they added to a warbands rating, but to argue that the equipment wardog doesn't count toward warband rating but an equipment horse does seems disingenuous. The horse and warhorse had differnent values, thus the need for clarification.
I would answer #2 with a YES.

@Von Kurst

Considering your interpretation of the rules for wardogs....how would you handle following situations.

1) The warband is at it´s max of members and get´s one free wardog when roling on the exploration chart.

Question:
Are you allowed to take the wardog or not ? One one hand it´s an item at the other had it count´s towards the limit of warband members.

2) Considering we have reached the limit of the warband members allowed and luckily we have a halfling cook book or a halfling cook hired.
We now get the free wardog when rolling on the exploration chart...or we buy it ...does not matter.

Question:
The Halfling cook dies during the game or the hero carrying the halfling cook book......as you now are over the limit of members allowed for the warband....who has to leave the gang ?
The wardog were gotten for free and let´s say it´s allocated to an hero that did not die.
Is it allowed to disband the wardog allthough it´s only an item and no henchmen or has one henchmen to leave the gang ?

You see ...the rules around this topic are really foggy....at least for me
I agree that this situations will not come frequently but when they will arise the complexity and impact is quite big.

Regards
Claus

1: if it counts towarts the warband limit, you cannot take it (unless you disband another member. If this is allowed at that time, I'm not sure, but I'd say so)
2: someone has to leave the gang, you decide. I'd allow you to wait for this decision until post-game, because you might get the chance to hire another cook or buy another book. But that's just me, I guess.

I totally agree to Von Kurst:

his rules interpretation is fine. The situation may be not 100% clear, but dog taking an henchman slot should be counted to rout tests and as warband member to lessen your income.

This would fit well to the game mechanics.