Dwarf Slayer - Frenzy + Ferocious Charge

Ok so...

My Slayer (from the last round of games) is now subject to Frenzy...

Quote :

Some warriors can work themselves into a berserk state of fury, a whirlwind of destruction in which all concern for their own personal safety is ignored in favour of mindless violence. These warriors are described as being frenzied. Frenzied models must always charge if there are any enemy models within charge range (check after charges have been declared). The player has no choice in this matter – the warrior will automatically declare a charge. Frenzied warriors fight with double their Attacks characteristic in hand-to-hand combat. Warriors with 1 Attack therefore have 2 Attacks, warriors with 2 Attacks have 4, etc. If a warrior is carrying a weapon in each hand, he receives +1 Attack for this as normal. This extra Attack is not doubled. Once they are within charge range, frenzied warriors are immune to all other psychology, such as fear and don’t have to take these tests as long as they remain within charge range. If a frenzied model is nocked down or stunned, he is no longer frenzied. He continues to fight as normal for the rest of the battle.

But before that unfortunate outcome, he chose "Ferocious Charge"

Quote :

The Slayer may double his attacks on the
turn in which he charges. He will suffer a -1 ‘to hit’ penalty on
that turn.

Now, the slayer has a base of 2 Attacks and DWs two dwarf Axes..

Does this mean, when charging he gets

2 Attacks
x 2 from Frenzy = 4A
x 2 from Ferocious Charge = 8A
+ 1 from DWing Axe = 9A (With -1 to hit modifier)

Awesome?

Hmm.. weird situation indeed. My suggestion would be - and it is based on a feeling of what would be more fair and more in line with the spirit of the game: You have two double effects so apply +2 for frenzy and +2 for fericous charge, making 6 total. Doubling the doubled number seems wrong to me. But I don't think there is anything that could prevent you from demanding the full 8 attacks. However, someone might suggest (and if this was my game this is how I would rule it) that the doubled attacks cannot be doubled again, ie frenzy and FC both have the same effect which is not cumulative. But that's not what I would say is correct when just rules-lawyering...

I think we can apply Tuomas's response to another doubling question:

Quote :

Q: The Quick Shot skill allows a model to fire twice per turn. Can a model armed with a sling and having the Quick Shot skill then fire four shots if they are less than half range?
A: No -the spec. rule and the skill do the same thing. They both change A into B, doing the same thing -end result is the same. No doubling doubles! [Tuomas, Mordheim Yahoo! eGroups' FAQ]

From this, I say that any references to doubling should only double the base number (not a doubled number). Now, I completely agree with cianty that both Special Rules should help your Frenzied Ferocious Charger, and would give the 6A+off-handA.

While we no longer have Quick Shot with Slings:

Quote :

OFFICIAL Mordheim ERRATA: Page 122, Quick Shot; Replace the description with:
“Quick Shot: The warrior may shoot twice per turn with a bow or crossbow (but not a crossbow pistol).”

If we did, I'd give a Quick Shot with a twice-firing sling a total of 3 shots, using the same method cianty applied to your Frenzied Ferocious Charger.

Uh, there is the quote. I knew I had something in the back of my mind. So then Ferocious Charge is useless for frenzing warriors.

Deathwish: Troll Slayers seek an honorable death in combat. They are completely immune to all psychology and never need to test if fighting alone.

Isn't Frenzy under Psychology?


Ferocious Charge is taking the place of Frenzy.

There was no way it was intended to give 6+ Attacks.

Also, Frenzy works on BASE Attacks under your Slayer Characteristic, Frenzy was not meant to be used in conjunction with special rules and skills.

Oh, yes. Frenzy obviously doesn't apply to Slayers then.

How would he have gotten frenzy to begin with? AFAIK the only way to get frenzy is via serious injury or inherit abilities on the model (eg Centigor). Hired swords do not roll on the serious injury chart.

But yeah, immune to psych anyway.

The slayer is also a hero on the dwarf treasure hunters warband So he can be injured, and become frenzied, but it doesn't affect him

So does that mean slayers don't

• Hate Orcs & Goblins: All Dwarfs hate Orcs and Goblins. See the
  psychology section of the Mordheim rules for details on the effects of
  hatred.
  

Methinks "Immune to Psychology" could be defined in the Leadership & Psychology section to everyone's benefit.

For the record and to make sure this does not circle back around, Slayers can not get Frenzy, unless you House Rule it.

The Hatred for the slayers need to be looked at a poor choice of wording as the fluff fits the bill for them Hating Orcs and etc. The rule book has done this several times, they should have used another word or a disclaimer that "x" or "y" happens instead.

Eventhough this scenario can't happen because of the immune to psyc part, both skills doubles the base attacks (both skills giving him 4 attacks instead of 2 etc.), that just makes it REALLY double and not quadruple

Exactly. The whole reason the Ferocious charge skill was given was to make up for the Frenzy.

I read to the Town Cryer #21 about Dwarf Troll Slayer's skill Berserker :

Quote :

Berserker: The Slayer may add +1 to his close combat to hit rolls during the turn which he charges. (may not be used with Ferocious Charge).

Do you play this change for all the Dwarf Troll Slayers : the Hired sword of the rulebook ? and the Dwarf Treasure Hunters Hero?