Beastmen BS advances

Slings use a BS and would not be usable by the Beastmen.

How would a Beastmen be able to use a thrown weapon as you still us the BS to determine?

Mr.chair wrote:

My fellow players claim it's intentionally done as a balance strategy. I would porport that no GW game has ever worried about balance...

Well, you're probably all wrong.

One solution would be to house rule beastman racial max bs to three. This effectively gives you your reroll, but only by strictly limiting yourself so it's not an attractive option for anyone who doesn't like their advance.

The only reason I can see an beastmen getting higher BS is if he later gets the "That lads got talent" and you choose "Shooting" as one of his skills, he could then get the skill so he can use any ranged weapon he wants!

But that is still pretty far fetched!

SaittaMicus wrote:

The only reason I can see an beastmen getting higher BS is if he later gets the "That lads got talent" and you choose "Shooting" as one of his skills, he could then get the skill so he can use any ranged weapon he wants!

But that is still pretty far fetched!

you can't choose shooting, as none of the hero's have access to it! You can only pick from those.

Paluke has a point on that one also.

Paluke wrote:

SaittaMicus wrote:

The only reason I can see an beastmen getting higher BS is if he later gets the "That lads got talent" and you choose "Shooting" as one of his skills, he could then get the skill so he can use any ranged weapon he wants!

But that is still pretty far fetched!

you can't choose shooting, as none of the hero's have access to it! You can only pick from those.

And this applies to both the possessed warband and the actual beastman warband. Are there any other beastmen floating about I'm not aware of? Hired swords?

i've tried the stones idea and it caused much fuss and confusion, as other players decided that they could pick up stones and throw them too and before you know it you end up with a big pie throwig competition, same as when you try to define clubs as a piece of wood that any one can pick up and use, all the changes start to slow the game down, i think it can get very easy to become bogged down in too much rule making and excess arguing over said rules, keep it simple and keep it fats and fun

Well, I am currently playing in the campaign with MrChair and the majority of us have ruled that if you have a hero that doesn't have access to the Shooting skill table and isn't offered any type of ranged weapon from the begining then he is able to take the +1WS. In return he has allowed others with the use of BS to re-roll as well. It was something we agreed upon that is useless to certain armies and since they will never need the stat, they would most likely never train in the use of that stat.

It could also be possible to make a stat N/A, i have a beastman warband and when i get a +1BS i tend to just accept that s**t happens and take it that it is one of the drawbacks of what is normally a very formidable warband. But if all concerned are in agreement then it should not cause a problem if certain stats for some warbands were made N/A, although as the band progresses it will gain an edge over other warbands as it will be getting an extra bonus each game from what could be called selective advancements, as i'm sure we've all had our swordsmen or pit fighters forced to accept a +1BS at some time or other

It seems reasonable that a model that could never, ever use an advance should re-roll. This would not include swordsmen who can be equipped with shooting weapons as a basic option, but would include beastmen and pit fighters. Question: what about Darksouls and Ld advances? Is there some rule or spell, something, that looks at Ld without an actual check?

I'm not sure, but I have brought up the question about Slayers and LD, as they are immune to psych the LD is mute on Slayers.

conan the ballbearing wrote:

... when i get a +1BS i tend to just accept that s**t happens and take it ...

Me too. Easiest all round to simply suck it up.

Regarding the slayer and dark soul leadership issue, in any campaign I was running, I'd rule that you take it unless you've hit the racial maximum. Matters not whether it's any use to you or not. It's all part of the charm and madness of Mordheim in my book.

Clarification = the dark soul, as per the normal rules, could only take it once as a henchmen. If promoted to hero status, he would become eligible for additional leadership increases up to his racial maximum. The slayer could only take it once because, then, he'd be at the Dwarf racial maximum.

LGT does allow the Darksoul to utilize LD advances.

You know I looked at the Rules review and they specifically list a higher max BS for Beastmen when they give the ability maximums. I can't think that nobody said... "You know, beastmen can't even take missile weapons." When they wrote this. Well, OK I can this is GW we are talking about. I would hope somebody said it. Anyway, I can't help but thinking this was probably intentional. There are a few ways to use BS for the Beastmen and they could have been given BS of 0 the way Saurus and Kroxigor were.

I like the idea of sucking it up and dealing with it the best. Mordheim doesn't always make alot of sense. Though I would hope should we ever see another rules review that this sort of thing would be addressed.

Maximum profiles are the profiles of Warhammer generals for the respective race. It's simple as that. No deeper meaning in it.

it's also worth remembering that when the rules were first written there was no beastman warband, only beastmen henchmen for chaos, but the main point is that you can use BS, yes i know nets are crap and on the whole very rarely used, hell i've got 2 pit fighter warbands and not one of them has a net, and in all the years i've been playing Mordheim i've yet to meet someone using holy water, but they are there and BS is usable, the fact that you don't want to use it should not apply, as for lizardmen, i have yet to create a warband for them so i've never played em, i might just make them my next project as the new minis are out end they look very good. But i do think it's about time GW did a rework on the rules though as they seem to be letting Mordheim slip down the slope of Gorkamorka

Well, it doesn't really matter, because are group has already allowed the re-roll for Beastmen and Pit Fighters for the BS roll.

ts061282 wrote:

Is there some rule or spell, something, that looks at Ld without an actual check?

A rout test for one, no where in the rules does it refer to it as a leadership test. Another example is the initial dice-off for the lure of chaos spell, but since it is almost immediately followed by a leadership test that point is moot.

My justification that a rout test is not a leadership test is that otherwise, if a darksoul ever becomes leader the warband will never fail a rout test.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:

ts061282 wrote:

Is there some rule or spell, something, that looks at Ld without an actual check?

A rout test for one, no where in the rules does it refer to it as a leadership test. Another example is the initial dice-off for the lure of chaos spell, but since it is almost immediately followed by a leadership test that point is moot.

My justification that a rout test is not a leadership test is that otherwise, if a darksoul ever becomes leader the warband will never fail a rout test.

A rout test is made by the player referencing his leaders leadership value. A darksoul passes any Leadership test he makes. Since the Darksoul does not make the rout test, the player does, you do not automatically pass rout tests if a darksoul becomes your leader.

I don't think we have anyone playing Darksouls, so that isn't an issue for us atm. Since Slayers can become leaders I am all for LD 10, which one of them currently has. The general consensus was that if you choose to re-roll the BS stat for Beastmen, Pit Fighters, or Slayers then you can never give them nets or any other item that requires a BS roll.

Mexican_Ninja wrote:

I don't think we have anyone playing Darksouls, so that isn't an issue for us atm. Since Slayers can become leaders I am all for LD 10, which one of them currently has. The general consensus was that if you choose to re-roll the BS stat for Beastmen, Pit Fighters, or Slayers then you can never give them nets or any other item that requires a BS roll.

Ah. So you're rule is more harsh than simple pegging BS at 3 with the racial max.

Quote :

Ah. So you're rule is more harsh than simple pegging BS at 3 with the racial max.

Right. The idea was that it was to emphasize their non-shooting nature. If you want the bonus of skipping the BS advances, you have to go in head first and get rid of your BS altogether.

We could prolly lock this thread up now.