Athel Loren: (yet another) Wood Elf Warband Set

Spellsinger: I'm not fully convinced, but we can go with her only access to glamourweave for now.
Perhaps we should even allowed warriors that are not spellsingers to take it, and then they can get taal spells with a tome of magic?

Alter: Should not ever become a hero, perhaps if the warband includes only wolves and him, also it might be very fluffy to give him the "loner" (no all alone tests) too, it wouldn't be that good, as he wont be able to use his beastmaster when he doesn't have friends within 6"

Honor: Agreed, instead of first advance, just promoted heroes can purchase an honor.

So what we have thus far:
Max Warband size: 12
Starting gold: 500

Warrior equipment list:
Close combat (prices are normal unless listed):
Dagger
Staff
Sword
Spear
Double-handed weapon
Double Spear 20gc (25gc?)
Missile Weapon:
Javelins
Bow*
Longbow*
Armour:
Shield
Buckler
Light armour
Helmet
Misc:
Tattoos 15gc
Warpaint 15gc
*=Heroes only.

Ranger equipment list:
Close combat (prices are normal unless listed):
Dagger
Staff
Sword
Spear
Missile Weapon:
Javelins
Bow
Longbow
Elf Bow 30gc
Armour:
Buckler
Light armour
Helmet

Kindred:
May only be purchased on initial purchase of a hero, Any henchmen that advances to hero may forfeit his first advance to purchase a kindred:
Wardancers: Gain +1 WS, Access to Wardancer skills, and immune to psych. May not wear armor, use missiles, or ride. Cost 15gc.

Child of Kurnous: Starts with S4. May access any Strength skill except Resilient. Loses Shooting skills, and may not use any missile weapon that is not thrown. Cost 20gc.

Alter: Starts with +1 Movement. Is immune to all alone tests, any friendly animals within 6" may use the Alters leadership. 10gc

Scout: Uses ranger equipment list, You gain +1 or -1 to an exploration dice each post game. You may only have one Scout in your warband at a time. 15gc.

Waywatcher: Starts with +1 BS, and access to the Ranger Equipment list instead of the Warrior list. Access to Infiltrate and waywatcher special skills. May only have 1 waywatcher in your warband at a time. 25gc

Eternal Guard:
This warrior is an eternal guard, he has vowed to protect the forest against any harm, therefore he is obliged to use a bow given to him by a dryad, he may not purchase any bow in his first game, and in any game thereafter he may search for it as a rare 10 item (except for elven bows which are still rare 12), he may not use a bow from another warrior in the warband.
He may purchase and wear heavy armour for 50gc.
In addition he has the bodyguard special rule:
Whenever an enemy model declares a charge at a model with 4" of the Guard, (and the Guard is not engaged in combat, knocked down or stunned), the Guard may make an immediate 2" move in any direction, which takes place before the charge is implemented. This may only be used if it allows the Guard to intercept the charge (which he/she must do), and only once per movement phase.
15gc

Glamourweaver: This a an Honour that may be taken by your Spellsinger. Whenever learning a new spell (including his default spell), roll two dice, and pick whichever of the two results you wanted.
If this honour is not taken on a spellsinger, then it will give any warrior with this honour and a tome of magic able to learn spells from the wood elf list instead of gaining skills. 35gc

DOUBLE HEADED SPEAR
20gc, rare 5, Wood Elves Only
Range: Close, Strength: Users, Special: Two Handed, Strike First, Backswing
Two-Handed: The Spear is a two handed item, and may not be used with a buckler, shield, or additional hand weapon. A model armed with a shield may still receive a save in the Shooting Phase.
Strike First: In the first round of combat, the user may make attacks equal to his Attack characteristic that strike first, before the normal initiative order. If the spear-wielding model is charged, then the order of attack is based on Initiative.
Backswing: The Double-Headed Spear grants an additional attack, that does NOT gain the 'Strike First' ability, but attacks during the normal attack order. It has no bonus or penalty, and counts as a 'bladed' weapon when dealing with Critical Hit Charts.

TATTOOS - 15gc, Rare 5 - Wood Elves, Slayers, Beastmen, Savage Orcs, & Forest Goblins Only
Ward Save: To each wound the user suffers, he receives a 6+ Ward save that is never modified or negated.
Not Armor: Tattoos are never increased with the use of armor, and may not be used with armor (excluding bucklers and helmets.) If the player decides to put armor on a Tattooed model at the start of the game, the tattoos will have no effect this game. If the opponent is attacking with a blow that grants an armor save, (i.e. daggers), the Tattooed model receives a Tattoo save OR the armor save (the defending player's choice.) Likewise, tattoos may be worn/used by models that are not allowed armor (such as Slayers or Wardancers.)
Permanent: Once worn, the tattoos are permanent, and may not be sold, traded, stolen, or lost.

Warpaint - Rare 5, 15+2d6gc
Warpaint is a one-time use item that may be worn at the beginning of any battle. The hero causes fear, and is immune to fear. It may not be worn by models that are wearing armor (helmets, bucklers, and tattoos excluded.)

SPECIAL SKILLS
Infiltrate - Same as Skaven, may only be taken by three heroes.
Fey Quickness - +1 to Dodge or Step Aside, provides 6+ on it's own.
Woodland Avengers - Hates all Orcs, Goblins, Beastmen, and Dark Elf warbands (and any Hired Swords with them.)
Potions Master - May make 1D3-1 Healing Herbs each game. May not be sold, and any not used are discarded after the game.
Hunter's Instinct - May target any enemy model, not just closest.

WARDANCER SKILLS:
Powerful Build - May learn Strength skills.
Whirling Death - Same as 'Wrath of Khaine' Skill from Lustria Dark Elves.

Waywatcher skills:
Strong Pull: This skill may not be combined with quick shot, if the warrior is S4 or more (either base, or through some sort of blessing or drug), any bow he fires are at +1S.

Trapmaster: This skill may only be taken by a waywatcher with the infiltration skill.
This warrior has infiltrated the territory and set-up a number of nasty traps, place D3 trap counters anywhere on the table (coins will do fine), they must be at least 4" apart, any warrior, that is not a waywatcher moving within 2" of a trap must pass an initative test, if failed he suffers a S4 hit.
If it is available the waywathcer may poison his traps in black lotus or dark venom (one dose for all traps and not both), dark venom adds +1S to the hit, while black lotus adds +1 to the injury roll, if it wounds.

1 Warden - Leader. - about 75gc
Normal (perhaps a bit better) elf stats,
M5 WS5, BS 4, S3, T3, W1, I5, A1, LD9
Warrior equipment list.
Combat, Shooting, Academic, Speed, Special skills.

0-1 Spellsinger: 45-55gc
Sub-par elf stats, having focused more on spells.
M5 WS3, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Warrior equipment list.
Can only take the glamourweave kindred.
Academic, speed & special.

0-2 Glade champions: 40-50gc
M5 WS4, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I5, A1, LD8
Warrior equipment list.
With the kindreds they can be fairly good at anything you want them to do, the scout would be the weakest, but then again, he would have a tremendous effect on your post-game income.
Combat, Shooting, Speed, Special.

Henchmen:
0-5 Shooty elves (name pending): 40gc
M5 WS3, BS4, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Ranger equipment list.

Elven warriors: 40gc
M5 WS4, BS4, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Warrior equipment list

Wolves: 20gc
M7 WS4, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Animals

Elven trainees: 30gc
M5 WS3, BS3, S3, T3, W1, I4, A1, LD8
Warrior equipment list.

I still think, for the most part, the kindreds are too good of a deal. Compare them to mutations you can buy for other warbands. Great claw upgrades the strength of a single attack +1 for 50 gold. Child of Kurnos upgrades the model +1 strength and adds a skill list for 15 gold. Losing shooting prowess is significant, but I still think you're getting too good a deal. A person would have to be absurdly daft to not the the glamourweave kindred for a spellsinger. It's an ability I would easily pay 40+ gold for in most warbands. It seems silly to include "options" in warbands which are in fact no-brainers. Waywatcher also is amazing value. For 10 gold you get great shooting weapons and access to a skill making bow attacks S4. I'd suggest something more along the lines of: Wardancer 15, Kurnos 25, Alter 10, Scout 15, Waywatcher 25, Eternal 10, Glamourweave 35.

Little things:
I like the spellsinger at BS 3.
I imagine you meant the warrior hench to have WS4 and BS3?
I think the wolves are too good for their price. This isn't the witch hunter warband. The WE's shouldn't have an extremely good fodder unit in my opinion. I'd suggest knocking them down to WS2 and I3, or making them 20 gold, or limiting them to a max of 2 in the warband.
You say the waywatcher can take the infiltrate skill, but that's redundant as any hero can take the skill, correct? Or is that giving the infiltrate ability to a promoted hench who does not take the elf special skills list?
I really like the lack of clubs and axes as equipment options.
I would consider giving the eternal guard access to the "Powerful Build" skill, and have him lose access to shooting skills. With 2 skill advances he would take resilient, allowing him to be somewhat of a better guard. Conversely, you could give him access to heavy armor in addition to the bodyguard skill. This would also make him less squishy on the intercept and give him a rather unique spot in the warband.

Identity wrote:

I still think, for the most part, the kindreds are too good of a deal. Compare them to mutations you can buy for other warbands. Great claw upgrades the strength of a single attack +1 for 50 gold. Child of Kurnos upgrades the model +1 strength and adds a skill list for 15 gold. Losing shooting prowess is significant, but I still think you're getting too good a deal. A person would have to be absurdly daft to not the the glamourweave kindred for a spellsinger. It's an ability I would easily pay 40+ gold for in most warbands. It seems silly to include "options" in warbands which are in fact no-brainers. Waywatcher also is amazing value. For 10 gold you get great shooting weapons and access to a skill making bow attacks S4. I'd suggest something more along the lines of: Wardancer 15, Kurnos 25, Alter 10, Scout 15, Waywatcher 25, Eternal 10, Glamourweave 35.

I agree, they seem far to cheap as they are now. I like your price tags, although I think kurnous should be at 20gc, as it limits you quite much from not being able to get missile weapons.

Identity wrote:

Little things:
I like the spellsinger at BS 3.
I imagine you meant the warrior hench to have WS4 and BS3?
I think the wolves are too good for their price. This isn't the witch hunter warband. The WE's shouldn't have an extremely good fodder unit in my opinion. I'd suggest knocking them down to WS2 and I3, or making them 20 gold, or limiting them to a max of 2 in the warband.
You say the waywatcher can take the infiltrate skill, but that's redundant as any hero can take the skill, correct? Or is that giving the infiltrate ability to a promoted hench who does not take the elf special skills list?
I really like the lack of clubs and axes as equipment options.
I would consider giving the eternal guard access to the "Powerful Build" skill, and have him lose access to shooting skills. With 2 skill advances he would take resilient, allowing him to be somewhat of a better guard. Conversely, you could give him access to heavy armor in addition to the bodyguard skill. This would also make him less squishy on the intercept and give him a rather unique spot in the warband.

The warrior henchmen have no access to other missile weapons than javelins, I don't think it is too much that they can get javelins with ballistic skill 4. * EDIT: I see I wrote them as ws 3 & bs 4, this is a mistake they should have both stats at 4.
You might be right about the wolves. But I think knocking them down to ws 2 and I3 will make them a little useless for 15gc. Perhaps instead just up their cost to 20gc.
It was meant that the waywatcher can always take the infiltration skill, even if he is a henchman that has been promoted, this way he wont lose the option for the trapmaster skill (might sound better with trapmaker?)

Axes are included as options on the warrior equipment list, as I think some wood elves could use axes.

On the eternal guard:
I'm against giving him acces to powerful build, as I want to minimize the amount of strong elves. I'm also against limiting him from shooting skills, as that would eliminate another shooter from the warband, which leaves us with one thing: We remove his access to bows from the start, and give him access to heavy armour, this should knock the price for eternal guard up to 15gc.
Keep in mind that if he is armed with a spear or double-spear (or gets the lightning reflexes skill) he will become a quite powerful guard as he will more often than not strike first when he is charged.
I will edit in the changes.

Wolves: I like the WS4, S3 wolves. I think they're quite balanced.

Identity: Good call. If we do pump the Honours that high, I think the champions need to be stronger/higher costing, so that they can function well without the honours. How about it they started with BS 4 and cost 50gc. Sound good?

Glamourweavers: I don't like the idea of multiple mages. I mean, I LOVED the 'Loremaster' honour for the Lothern, which was 'Starts with an Academic Skill', useful for Mages or for Leaders. How's this for Glamour Weaver: "Anytime your Hero advances, you may roll a D6 before rolling on the advancement table: on a 5+, you may choose a skill/spell instead of rolling for advancement." Option B is to make it closer to the Wood Elf WFB ability, and that the Wood Elf gains a ward save. (or maybe, increases Tattoos from 6 to 5+? This would benefit Spellcasters, as they can access Tattoos.)

If we give the champions bs 4, this will set the waywatcher to bs 5. Which is a dangerously high ballistic skill.

Fluffwise I agree with you though, ballistic skill 4 would be more realistic, and it would probably work better for a lot of reasons, but I'm just not too happy with having an entire bs4 band.

But I see you will pay 75 for a ballistic skill 5 warrior.
If we do it this way, we have to remember that this will really be an elite warband. Starting warbands of 5-6 warriors would be the common way to do it, and thus they will suffer more if we include the "hard to recruit" feature into athel loren.

I like the idea that glamour weaves can choose to get a skill when they advance.

Like Master, I like your ideas from last post as well, Styro.

If the champions have BS4, this makes the loss of shooting due to wardancer or kurnos kindreds more significant (which i like).

Master wrote:

I like the idea that glamour weaves can choose to get a skill when they advance.

I like this bonus more as well.

I still think such a good fodder unit isn't appropriate for these elves, but with a max warband size of 12, the wolves are likely only to be used in the first few games anyways.

Ok, so we'll up the champions to BS 4.

The wolves where my addition because I am against the elven novices, we can go with either or both.

So glamourweaves can always choose skill when they get an advancement, instead of rolling on the advancement table, fine by me.

So, to recap:

Alters are now no longer an Honour choice, but restricted to HSs.

Wolves: I don't think Wolves and Javelin-Wielding novices are two much. Again, 4 henchmen is a lot, but so long as # of Heroes + # Henchmen is less than 8, I'm happy.

Glamour: Slightly confused. Are we going with the "Learn skill on 5+", or may automatically learn skills?

StyrofoamKing wrote:

Glamour: Slightly confused. Are we going with the "Learn skill on 5+", or may automatically learn skills?

Compromise and make it "Learn skill on 4+"?

Identity wrote:

StyrofoamKing wrote:

Glamour: Slightly confused. Are we going with the "Learn skill on 5+", or may automatically learn skills?

Compromise and make it "Learn skill on 4+"?

Fine by me...

I first of all have to thank you guys all the work done for this fabulously balanced wood elf warband. I am going to test it in a bunch of scenarios with my friends and tell you how it worked.

The warband is fine, but i'm having a question on this warband you have made:
What are the maximum stats for a wood elve? are they T3 or they keep the maximum stats of other elves in Mordheim?

Thanks in advance