Styro's Savage Orc Warband for Athel Loren

We've been talking Savage Orcs on the Sartosa thread and SFK suggested I check out his new WIP warband. I'm moving away from SO for the Sartosa setting (no cannons!) but I have some thoughts and I don't see the need to join Specialist Games if all I want to comment on is Mordheim stuff.

There are some great ideas in the list, as usual I have some reservations:

From the SO Skill table by SFK
"rock ’ard- The Orc has a thick, dark-green skin, possibly indicating Black Orc blood. Such is the toughness of the Orc that he may add +1 to any armour saves. Also, if wearing Bone Armor, he may ignore one of the inches of movement penalty (meaning he’s at normal speed with armor, -1 with a shield.)

’eadbasher Orcs- have massive physical strength and some of them even learn to aim their blows at the heads of their opponents, with obvious results. Any knocked down results which the Orc causes in hand-to-hand count as stunned results instead. 

Bushwhacker- Whenever an Orc moves into a single tree terrain piece (that is not a structure/building, like a treehouse or fort), the Orc hero may attempt to knock it down.  The Orc immediately halts in base contact with the terrain piece, and may not shoot or cast spells this turn.  Take an immediate Strength test on 2D6, adding any bonuses for Hand-to-Hand weapons and skills: if passed, the tree terrain is removed from the table. Otherwise, the tree remains where is, and the Orc may attempt to remove it during his next turn.  If the terrain piece has multiple trees on the same base, he must attempt to remove them all at the same time, subtracting -1 from his strength for every tree past the first."

Rock 'ard--rather than armor why not make the SO "Mork's Favorite" or something with +1 T against missile attacks or a +1 to any save from tattoos or warpaint.

'eadbasher--a nice idea but useless since the orc has access to Strike to Injure which is way better. Since they are savages how about 'eart Eater--every time the hero scores an actual kill (one of the models he sends OOA actually dies) he may eat the victim's heart to gain one skill or characteristic for D3 games or his next victim.

Bushwacker--silly. But not in a good way.

The lack of missile skills. I like Orcs being without missile skills in general, however since they are savages and live by hunting, skills for throwing weapons would be in character.

Long arm--the hero may add 3 inches to his maximum range with thrown weapons.

Axer--the hero is an expert with throwing axes. Like Knife-fighter but with throwing axes. (Same as Sartosa pirate skill)

Far killa--Trickshot for orcs.

Fluff versus rules--In the fluff for SO warriors it says that the boyz are without fear but their special rule is that they suffer from animosity, nothing about, for example, being fearless... Even the ability to re-roll a failed fear test would be a step in the right direction. (I recommend it for all SO).

Equipment. Savage Orcs should have access to javelins. They should not have longbows unless allowed by a skill. Bolos and spear throwers (atlatl) would also be characterful.

Forest Goblins should have their throwing knives.

disclaimer--If some of these ideas are in fact in the list and I missed them, I apologize for my lack of attention.Please excuse the aged.

js

Eadbasher & Rock Hard - The first skill is actually taken straight from the Orc skill list, really. Rock Hard is also an Orc Skill, but adds the bonus to 'Bone Armor*'. I like your idea of using it with tattoos, though, and may make it "+1 Armor save, or +1 to Tattoos." (meaning you get a 5+ Armor save with a shield, or 5+ WARD save with Tattoos.)

Bushwhacker - Sorry you don't like. Is it the idea of altering terrain, the way it's done, or is it just useless in your opinion? In Athel Loren (not necessarily Sartosa), it's all about trees, trees, trees. I almost gave the SOs a skill for moving through woods without penalty, but stopped myself for two reasons: a) it's the exact same as every other Athel warband, and b) Savage Orcs wouldn't gently pass through the trees, they'd knock 'em over!

Equipment/Skills: Both you and Master seem to agree on one point that makes me scratch my head... you both say "take out the longbows", but also "they need shooting skills." To me, I look at the Middenheimers (with Xbow on their list, and no shooting skills), and I think of them as a H-t-h warband. I mean, with the option of taking Speed skills, the heroes will plow through at terrible speeds, by far making up the lack of ground. I mean, I COULD throw in some of the throwing-weapon skills back in (like Axe Thrower), but with the speed skills, do they really need them? I see them like the Norse Warband: your best strategy is charge, charge, charge.

Shooting Skills: I do find it funny that a lot of your Shooting Skills resemble some of the ones that show up in the Slayer Cult warband, (also for Athel Loren.) Maybe I WILL reuse some of them/use some of yours if you & master convince me against longbows.

Fearless: Well, Master and I are trying to figure out the frenzy rules. One of the options is that in the Recovery phase, roll 1D6: on a 1, they suffer Animosity (rules as normal), on a 6, they make a frenzied charge near the closest enemy (may move in the Movement phase as normal). Whatever the exact rules, the 'frenzy' or 'must charge' will take care of the fearless aspect, I think.

Javelins: I'll add javelins to the SO list. I can put Throwing Knives to the Forest Goblins, but without being able to become heroes, they're just 15gc for a move & fire weapon that's a third of the range of a short bow, and three times the cost. Bolas are in too.

Atlatls - hmm. didn't think about this one. would that be a, say 5-10gc misc item that extends a Javelin's range from 8" to 16"?

'eadbasher. Oops! I didn't look at Da Mob skill list to compare. My opinion doesn't change. (I thought my complaint sounded familiar...)

Rock Ard. I was commenting on the discussion of moving away from armor-could have been clearer-sorry. I like bone armor for the SO.

Bushwacker. I agree with your outlook on orcs just bashing through but elephants are really all the real world has to take out trees. Then there is the terrain issue. I have many multiple base trees. I have trees 11 or 12 inches tall. Little orc knock that over? How about a goblin scout to lead the bosses through? Like the Pathfinder from Lustria.

Or Bushwacker--the orc bulls his way through the underbrush. The hero and any boyz within 2 inches may move through woods as normal but they may not run or hide.

Finally there is the tactical thing of hugging cover rather than destroying your cover,

Shooting skills and Longbows. Longbows are just not orcy. Throwing things is orcy. Say you run 12 inches. Your target is behind some trees out of sight. If you move 4" you can throw something at him. Gives you something to do if a straight charge won't do it.

Shooting skills and Slayer Cult--well see they are good ideas!

Also the Norse got wolves. Something fast to support the heroes advance-same with Beasts or skaven. Orcs got da Troll, git wander off, stand around do nothin'.

Frenzy/Fearless--I'm coming from a group that dropped the Frenzy rule from doubles attacks to +1 as soon as Warhammer 6th ed came out. Frenzy isn't as overpowering in our games.

Throwing knives--yes but that st 4 goblin can hit from afar! Nothin' better for a gobbo! It does double his cost though...

Atlatls--sounds good!

Well, I'm not sold on the Bone Armor, but I thought I'd throw it out, and see what people thought. I'm trying to create a 'Master Equipment List', updating the old one from the Mordheimer site with equipment from Relics, Sartosa, and BTB. Well, I randomly stumbled upon 'stegagon bone armor' in the Lustria exploration phase. It gave a 5+ save, but -1 Movement, -2 with shield. It seemed like a great idea for a new item (cheap but effective), but requires a skill to go with it. The only other logical option is to put the SO on a Boar. It'd only move 5", but with it's shaggy hide, it'd make the Orc tougher than a Knight!

Another option is to add a basic skill to the Athel Loren Campaign. Make it a Combat or Strength skill:
Indefatigable: The hero ignores all movement penalties for armor.

(Would basically be there for the Bretonnians, but the Savage Orcs would benefit too.)

Oh, and back in MY day, there were Savage Orc models armed with Longbows. *sigh... the game has passed me by...*

The idea of a special skill to eliminate the encumbrance of armor is good.

Longbows for orcs--ja, you got me there! Its not one of the things I miss, but I do remember a Bretonnian vs Orc campaign I wrote years ago that had an Orc hero with a longbow as the leader of one faction. (He had killed the local knight by shooting him from ambush as he prayed to the Lady.) I miss my skirmishing SO boyz! Dey wuz killas!

Edit: And then I looked in my 4th edition Armybook and my 3rd edition Warhammer Armies and no longbow for Orcs! (Its included for "completeness" in the equipment list! With a may not use footnote! No wonder I'm crazy.) So I looked at my old scenario. It was a magic bow not a longbow. Messing with an old man's suggestible mind!