Mordheim Rules Engine, 6th Edition - Thoughts?

Well explained.

Fair enough, and I see your logic. However, I am far too used to the complex rules that they aren't all that complex to me. If that made any sense just then.

what I find odd is that the rules attractraded 10+ posts of criticism but almost no responses to my answer.

a more sinister person that I would suspect that some people were not really interested in discussing the rules, but merely in flaming my contribution. geez...

Flavio....There are just too many changes to the game and they really were not based on the intent of the game.

Tuomas was clear that Skaven were to have more models and it seems you don't think so.

Again, I will not go line item by line item on all the changes as I personally do not have that much time but if you really want feedback then you should personally go through and recheck all the changes you made and try to figure out why people dont' like them.

The mechanics do not need changed. The game does need a few more FAQs or a few more things spelled out as some people just can't figure things out (Thank God there is only a few). The game is simple to play and pretty easy to learn after a few games. (editing my bad grammar in 2nd sentence)

Hey Da Bank, I respect your opinion but... quoting myself here:

Quote :

[W]e can divide the criticism into two kinds:

Essence-Criticism: Some
people don't like the essence of how these rules are designed. Which
are: Smooth, simple, tactical over detailed, realistic and business as
usual. These criticisms are hard to adress because, essentially, if you
don't like it, then you just don't like it. End of story. Kind of.

Balance-Criticism: You like the rules but you think that this or that is unbalanced. - These criticisms are easier to accomodate.

Cool, then you know what to expect.

Again, this is where I say I have not read these new rules (My time available covers about 3/4 of the time I need...)

Asp wrote:

[W]e can divide the criticism into two kinds:

Essence-Criticism: Some
people don't like the essence of how these rules are designed. Which
are: Smooth, simple, tactical over detailed, realistic and business as
usual. These criticisms are hard to adress because, essentially, if you
don't like it, then you just don't like it. End of story. Kind of.

Part of me twitches when "realistic" is used as a justification in a game involving Magic, Elves, Orcs, Giants, Dragons, and Daemons. And, as always, people differ on what is "realistic" when it comes to things that do not actually exist.

Even what works on things that do exist get complicated. I note the US show "Mythbusters", where they will take something that was said to have happened, and go to great lenghts to see if it is possible. And, after they show it probably could not happen, they get lots of mail saying "you did that wrong"...

Which may explain the basic lack of responses after you posted. You've tried to answer everyone's comments; perhaps they simply disagree, and do not see a point in furthering the debate? After all, they are the ones still following the "official" rules...

Hey Oldcastle

We agree on the realism-part.

" Smooth, simple, tactical over detailed, realistic and business as
usual."

The operative word being 'over'. I see many people try to write rules that are "realistic" and they often end up very detailed and complex. This is where I say: This is a game, first and foremost. It should be smooth to play while offering tactical depth.

Quote :

perhaps they simply disagree, and do not see a point in furthering the debate?

That's great, but reading over the initial posts again I can't shake this feeling that some people just wanted to have their flame and were not really interesed in the points they raised.

LOL. Flame war?? No one has even come close to that. My next points will border on that.

People have tried but you have brushed them off and in fact you seem non caring really about the whole process. You keep asking and people have raised points. You feel you have countered and now most people really don't care about this revision of yours.

This revision is NOT REALISTIC. It will never be official.

This is great for your gaming group and maybe a few things for others to use in their group but as a whole it is not fitting for Mordheim.

Okay, as another posted remarked, I wasn't hostile to anyone in this thread before now. But I think this discussion has taken quite a ludicrous turn for the worse. My patience with people who want to define me, seemingly without even reading my posts, is unfortunately very limited.

Da Bank wrote:

People have tried but you have brushed them off

That can hardly be said. I responded to criticism in a thread started and debated by other people. - If people want to say that they think Witch Hunters are underpowered, they should be prepared to back it up or shut the f**k up. Their choice.

Da Bank wrote:

in fact you seem non caring really about the whole process.

Now what are you talking about? I just responded to all of the criticism in this thread. What do you mean by uncaring? - That I am/was not hostile? Consider that a fringe benefit. Caring does not have to involve personal attacks even though some of the posters in this thread regrettably seem to believe so.

Quote :

You keep asking and people have raised points.

If you are refering to this thread then no, I do not keep asking. It wasn't even started by me. This *has* registered with you, right? Because you keep arguing as if it hasn't.

Quote :

You feel you have countered

What I feel is totally unimportant in this context. I have countered, at least until someone points out the holes in my reasoning (which is both welcome and possible). - But of course it does take an above-average cognitive apparatus

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most people really don't care about this revision of yours.

I never expected that they would. You're really full of assumptions about what I feel and believe, aren't you? - Read my response on the previous page again.

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It will never be official.

The game is dead to GW. Wake up. The only future Mordheim will have is the future that we, the fans, give it. - No, this revision will probably never be official but that doesn't mean anything anyway as the official game is largely DEAD, or rather, Undead, as it is the fans that keep it alive.

LOL.

You kept asking for feeback.

Asp wrote:

The game is dead to GW. Wake up. The only future Mordheim will have is the future that we, the fans, give it. - No, this revision will probably never be official but that doesn't mean anything anyway as the official game is largely DEAD, or rather, Undead, as it is the fans that keep it alive.

The game isn't dead to GW or the products and resources wouldn't be offered. True GW had to *trim the fat* as it were when it went public, but they will offer support for it again when its profitable for them to, ie rules supplements and new warbands. The biggest loss was the box set and the plastic building sprues. Everything else is still available from the website.

Actually now your comments are flaming. Consideirng you are refering in your message. I have not done that.

It is very unfortunate that you would do that:

But of course it does take an above-average cognitive apparatus
You're really full of assumptions about what I feel and believe, aren't you?
This *has* registered with you, right? Because you keep arguing as if it hasn't
That can hardly be said. I responded to criticism in a thread started and debated by other people. - If people want to say that they think Witch Hunters are underpowered, they should be prepared to back it up or shut the f**k up. Their choice

Your comments in Red. Seriously, you are flaming for an arguement.. It seems you can't take it that people don't like your work. Too bad you can't handle it.

The irony! ...

Quote :

But I think this discussion has taken quite a ludicrous turn for the worse. My patience with people who want to define me, seemingly without even reading my posts, is unfortunately very limited.

Moved to Shout it out section.

This thread has little to do with the Mordheim Rules so I moved it.

I think this topic has now sufficiently been ventilated with hot air, and nothing new will come of it.

I suggest we let the subject "Gentlemen's Mordheim" rest and not discuss it on this Forum anymore. I would prefer if it would not be brought up again.

Those who like it, please go ahead and enjoy Asp's work as he has clearly invested a lot of time in it. Feel free to PM the creator and use the rules for yourself.

Those who do not like it, just stay away from it like me and play/paint/share the "original" Mordheim.

Please watch the tone people. The other forumites are your peers, and they are human beings who are NOT more stupid/ignorant than you. Please avoid giving "Hot Start" replies to avoid offending the others. They may not agree with you today, but you may still learn something from them tomorrow.

Thank you.