Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!

TOO MUCH BABBLE ALERT!

Sorry... I just noticed how much I wrote (again)... you don't know how hard is for DaBank, having to hear me non-stop!

@ Chad: My particular 'thing' on using a no-so-subtle name is that I would like for it to mean something for non-history buffs. I mean, I heard Mordheim mention for 10 months before I 'dared' to ask what the hell it was. Two days later I put my 40k armies on storage to play Mordheim for 2 years! To this day, Mordheim is THE BEST skirmish game... soon to be Death Squads! I can only imagine how many players Mordheim (and many others SG Games) lost players because of the obscure name. The same reason why many people play Blood Bowl... 'it is bloody football!'

@DeafNala: I love how 'forlorn hope' now makes sense! It is almost perfect! Maybe we could work something with a subtitle for the mundane people (like me!) By any chance you have references so I can read more? I could write an explanation on the 'weird' name on the books Introduction... this way players would KNOW what is the game about (by the subtitle) and once they read the intro with the explanation on WFT is Forlon Hope, they would go... 'COOL! Heroes fighting against all odds! I wanna try this!' You Sir, are a freaking genius!

@jackanory: Yes. DaBank showed me World in Arms (WiA) few months ago, when we were still fumbling on what we wanted to do... remember that at 1st we wanted to do few modifications to Space Hulk! HA! Anyhow, when we saw it we both went 'COOL! LETS PLAY THIS THING!' I even emailed the developers (cool guys all!) to congratulate them on this magnificent work. I even dared to ask why not Space Marines, and he explained that they could not balanced them. We started reading and we both came to one conclusion... this is Mordheim-in-Space! There is nothing wrong with that, but it lacked (IMHO) many 40k specific elements and (to my own dismay) nothing of the Mordheim "issues" were addressed (like armor... in Mordheim is just a pain in the cloaca!)

The more I talk to DaBank, the more I understood what he was trying to tell me. A new skirmish cannot be just and old system (Mordheim) in another totally unrelated Setting (in Space) nor we were trying to minimize 40k's size (which is what GW tried to do with Kill-Team and failed miserably.) We could not use the same Mordheim elements (like WARBAND design or game mechanics) and apply 40k elements (like stats proper for ARMIES). This would certainly fail in our intent. Do not get me wrong... WiA is GREAT! If you want to play Mordheim-in-Space, go ahead. To me, WiA fills a void for a good 40k skirmish, just like Lustria filled the need of playing in the jungle and adding that 'explorer' flavor or like Kemhri satisfied that need to adventure in the sands and the mystic lands (Mummies, Skeletons and Chariots... oh, my!)

Our purpose is to correctly fill the void of a skirmish game in the Warhammer 40k Universe. We are not redesigning Necromunda (which is about the stories on a specific city on a super poluted Hive World), nor adapting Mordheim to use 40k Races (like WiA did superbly), nor expanding Gorkamorka to other 40k Races (which they tried, but seems kindda odd), nor re-releasing Space Hulk (which is a GREAT board game that uses tiles on a 40k setting), etc. Yet, we are taking the elements from all those games that work and make them interweave, so players have an option on what to use.

For example, DaBank is in love with the idea of eventually making a 'Mad Max' like campaign with bikes, buggies and other vehicles. It took him almost a month to make me understand his vision. We are playing Death Squads without vehicles (just like I think is 'proper') while he works the kinks on those rules. Then our next Campaign will be concentrated on using them.

Our rulebook WILL include all those elements (and more) so players can choose what to do. I don't believe in a main book and 6 billion expansions. To paraphrase Tolkien; 'One Book to rule them all, One Book to find them, One Book to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.'

I do not see WiA as competition. Far the contrary... I see them as PIONEERS & INSPIRATION! Our goal is to take what they started, and move it forward. I even mention WiA in my intro. I'm grateful for their work. Their manual is 82 pages, of which 10 are rules and 71 are 'warbands' (all entries lack details on what each unit is and have HUGE tables) AND you need to have ALL the Mordheim material. This mean you NEED to know Mordheim, to learn and play WiA.

Our rulebook, in the other hand, is (at the moment) 156 pages long of which ~50 pages are introductions to miniature gaming, basic & advanced rules, ~30 are Campaign guidelines, ~ 40 are the Squads (2 Races, each including fully detailed descriptions that rival the Codex!) This is for now, as more Races will be added, so section this WILL grow! We have ~20 pages of Scenarios (and we want to have at least 50 Scenarios in the book!) Not only you would need NO OTHER BOOK, but we will include other things you can use (character sheets, campaign sheets, prize cards, vehicles, tiles, etc) to enhance you games. We are even discussing on making an Army Builder 3 datafile.

After we finish this massive project, we will look at WiA as the initiator of a dream... and WiA will look at us at the culmination and proper execution of that idea. 'nuff said.

@SomeOrc: We discussed about releasing what we have... but DaBank brought great and wise arguments against doing so. Sorry. We are patching to many bugs and details. If we release it, it will be the end of centralized coordination! Everybody and their uncle will try to make a Squad (warband) that they think is cool, without consideration of game balance (can anyone say Mordheim Druchii? Maybe Mordheim Ogres?) The name is part of it... but we want to have a good core of Races for players to choose. Since only two people are currently play-testing (AHEM... you people know who I'm directing this!), we can write all we want, but the overall progress will be slow.

A great example on play-testing was the Power Fist close combat weapon. In 40k, it basically doubles the user Strength and reduce Initiative to 1. We put down that on our list. Once we played we discovered it threw the game off! Someone with S8? Yikes! It took a while, but DaBank (like always) figured a fair way to implement this weapon. Now it is (I believe) Rare 10, +1 to Strength, -2 to Initiative, -1 to opponents Armor Save and allows D3 attacks. That would take care of MOST enemies while leaving a (random) chance of survival. Very powerful, but fair. Plasma pistol was another nightmare to fix. We have found Scenarios that look great on paper... and by playing them we find out that they need some tweaks to grwo from OK Scenarios to MAGNIFICENT Scenarios.

Once we fix the basics, we will release the PDF... probably torrents, so once it starts it can't be contained!

@Duce: Thanks! No bribing nor kissing [enter body orifice] necessary. You WILL be on our next Battle Report (that I will be writing in few hours...) Even when DaBank leaked the ending. It was an AWESOME game! I was SUPER happy... I won the game, good strategy and some (LOTS) of luck... but at the end, it was the human ingenuity (read, DaBank's crazy dice rolls) that triumphed over the evil Xenos! His 5 OOA guys (including Officers) we fine... my 4 OOA Orks... well my Officer (an 'Ard Boy) became Stupid and another Boy died! On the other hand, all my Officers gained a level, and I rolled Skills for most (except the stupid one, who rolled another Wound!) so story wise will be SUPER AWESOME! Stay tuned...

@Mordheimer....LOL. It was some game. I can't believe all 5 of my OOA rolled full recoveries. The Emperor must have been looking out over us.

Even though my squad was able to protect the Manufactorum Engineer/Governor we did so entirely by accident. We were just trying to survive the Waagh! charge.

We did get the 4D6 extra but you say my rolls my 4d6 equalled 8 or something like that? Oh well.

Next scenario will hopefully be Sabotage the air field. This should be interesting as it could be Ork or Hummie jets that need some attention.


Back on topic of this fan based game: Mordheimer has used his OCD to produce an freakin awesome Living Rule Book that of course that can be printed out. His story telling, editing, fluff and game mechanics are too numerous to list on this thread.

With that once we get it wrapped up it will be a complete game. With that said, it is pretty ready now but there will be a ton of questions that we can avoid if we tidy up the last few items.

Once we submit there will be a followed up FAQ, just like with any game but we are trying to prevent this as much as possible by literally spelling some things out. (We learned from Mordheim).

One thing we will put is that "Unless it says you can do something then you can't" This basic rule of thumb with Mordheim is overlooked by many but it will be game's motto.

I'll try to find the reference material; it's packed away SOMEWHERE. I have a tendency to put things in "safe" places only to forget where the "safe" place is...well they're safe from me. One reference to the Forlorn Hope is in one of the Sharpe [Peninsular War] novels; Sharpe joins the Forlorn Hope in storming of a Spanish fortress, which is in the hands of Napoleon's minions, in order to redeem himself from some contrived accusation [a good read ].

As far as the "genius" thingy goes, I just have the kind of mind, such as it is, that clings to TOTALLY useless information.

In no way whatsoever did I mean to rush you to release something. Your comment above mine just implied that there may be something finished, so I had to ask. Happy hacking, and by all means release when it's done but not before!

@DeafNala: So you are a freaking information Squirrel? hehehehe...

"Squirrels bury nuts and acorns, sometimes in lawns. The problem arises
when either they forget about some of the seeds or they can't find them because they are well hidden. However, when
the nut is retrieved, the squirrel doesn't bother to fill in the hole causing many other issues."


@Tom: OPPS! I think I just hijacked my own thread! What a duffus! Sorry! It was just too funny...
@everyone: Please concentrate on the topic.

Mordheimer wrote:

@DeafNala: So you are a freaking information Squirrel? hehehehe...

Actually it's more in the order of deranged/senile Pack Rat.

@someorc...No worries. We could put it out now but the just want "polish" a few things off.

Our playtesters need to provide us with some data and this would speed some things up.

This next Tuesday should be our next game and we will keep all posted on how it is going.

After our last game, everything went smoothly. We noted a few things about the scenario that need spelled out as one could infer another way to to it (just like in Mordheim) and one other small thing (secret) that i want to revisit and simplify it.

If there are those who are interested in playt testing then contact me or Mordheimer for review but one must have a gaming group along with models (proxies) to playtest.

Still looking for another name? If so, I was thinking of:
Close Quarters
keep your friends close but your enemies closer

Perhaps the punch line could be left out...

Hostile Actions?
Strife?
Conflict?
Breach/Into the Breach (as seen in an earlier post, making or defending a breach perhaps)
Mordspace

We have kept the original name of Death Squads.

With that, Close Quarters and Conflict are one of the better suggestions I have heard.

Da Bank wrote:

We have kept the original name of Death Squads.

With that, Close Quarters and Conflict are one of the better suggestions I have heard.

Ok cool, Death Squads is a cool name! Do you already have a logo or something?
Conflict is indeed a good name, but isn't that the name of a certain GW tourney?

Thanks, not for sure if Conflict is a GW Tourney our not but I wouldn't be surprised if someone used it already.

PM me and we can talk about the project.

How about: "Battle Squads"

they are squads, doing battle right?

I don't think they want to change the name any more.

but it does have a nice ring to it...

o well, maybe will make Battle Squads myself

Battle Squads is a nice one also but at the moment we are holding tight to the original.

If Star Wars (1978) can use it then so can we.

Dogs of War
The Guerillas (warriors, not the apes)
Last Stand
Fistful of 40k!
Unsung heroes

Edit: Oh crap, just relized the descision had been made. Sorry - haven't been on in awhile.

LOL...no worries. We are in our final stages. We are working on more squads to add in.

Looking for playtesters.

I'm sorry if I'm missing something - but isnt this what Necromunda is?

It's the predacessor to Mordheim, and a skirmish game based on 40k.

The rules dont demand that you play within a city. There are even stats in the rulebook for Space Marines, Orcs, Tyranids, etc.

It would take very little imagination to adapt Necromunda to a broader 40k scope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromunda

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1060101&rootCatGameStyle=

from what i've read and heard form the group deathsquads is quite different to necromunda, where as necromunda is gans fighting each other in the 40k universe deathsquads is the different races all having a go on a smaller scale, so it snot all human (mostly in necromunda) fighting each other, its orks fighting imperial guard teams who are in turn fighting eldar raiding parties.

Necromunda is 99% humans only. Yes there was a small supplement produced on other races but it is vague, incomplete and not balanced. Just ask a Necromunda player. Actually Wargoss Kurgan did an excellent job on a Ork Necromunda squad that he created.

It is not as easy as it seems to do what we have done. It is almost a year into the making and there are a few others on this forum who have created their own product and it takes a long time to get it right and balanced.

I Munda, is an excellent example. It is Inquisitor and Necromunda combined there are no hard and fast core rules, it is basically make it up as you go along.

Death Squads follows GWs approach to gaming mechanics and races.

Hostile Grounds and Forlorn Hope really sound good so far