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 Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?

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Angron
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PostSubject: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Fri 30 Apr 2010 - 0:55

How exactly does one handle the plague cart in the game? Theres a different Toughness and Wounds for the cart, horses, and wheels. So does the enemy get to choose to attack the different pieces of the cart? What happens when one of the sections of the cart dies?
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Fri 30 Apr 2010 - 1:20

The rules for wagons are described in the "Vehicles of the Empire" chapter of the Empire in Flames supplement. They detail the rules for movement and combat with wagons and carts.

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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 6 May 2010 - 10:38

I had a big disscussion with Mr. Cianty, on this subject, including “writer’s intent”. I read latter somewhere, that He wrote the COC. Take his word for it.


As for my strategy, I leave my Cart out of Combat. I park it at the edge of the table in as much cover as I can find for it. I get the benefits for having the Cart and don’t have to deal with how to fight for or with it. Most battles my COC have been into, have never been in or near my Deployment zone. So it hasn’t come up in years. Besides, its easier to make a Warband route by taking members OOA, rather than trying to destroy the cart.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 6 May 2010 - 11:15

Shadowphx wrote:
I read latter somewhere, that He wrote the COC. Take his word for it.

I'm sure you didn't read that as I didn't write the warband. Smile
I recently completed the FAQ for wagons though, so I hope once we release that all issues regarding wagons are solved.

By the way, I like to use (or advise using) wagons as moving platforms for your marksmen to shoot from. Can be very useful.

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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 6 May 2010 - 16:10

As long as they are converted to elevate a model 2" off the ground, I would say they are EXCEPTIONALLY useful.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 6 May 2010 - 17:03

If you have some experience with wagons though, you will see that they get out of control very easily and then are prone to crash into something. Wagons can easily be a death trap for your own warriors too. It's a tricky thing...

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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 6 May 2010 - 17:08

My income is far from where it needs to be to afford a wagon and there are buying priorities, anyway. But yes, heed cianty's warnings. Wagons can be a useful tool...but dangerous if used improperly.
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Wed 12 May 2010 - 13:52

Just bought a coc warband and think of getting a wagon... do your models count as having moved when they are on the wagon and it moved? I.a can they shoot? Modiviers?
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Wed 12 May 2010 - 14:44

Unfortunately there are no rules for this. Technically models on the wagon haven't moved.

We play it so that the models do not count as moving (so they can use crossbows) but suffer a -1 modifier for "standing on a moving surface".

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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Wed 12 May 2010 - 15:16

That is what i figured myself... seems fair. Thanx bro!
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Wed 12 May 2010 - 16:30

cianty wrote:
Unfortunately there are no rules for this. Technically models on the wagon haven't moved.

We play it so that the models do not count as moving (so they can use crossbows) but suffer a -1 modifier for "standing on a moving surface".

That sounds fair. I know that in Warhammer Ahoy! warriors do NOT suffer a -1 modifier when shooting from a moving ship. However that is not strictly Mordheim and would have been done for gameplay reasons to add some extra, valid options in ship based combat.

@cianty... are you going to add this to some recommended 'optional rules' in your FAQ for vehicles? I think that it would be good (similar to the recommended 'optional rules' for mounted warriors that was appended to the rules for the Imperial Outriders warband).
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 13 May 2010 - 1:51

RationalLemming wrote:
I know that in Warhammer Ahoy! warriors do NOT suffer a -1 modifier when shooting from a moving ship. However that is not strictly Mordheim and would have been done for gameplay reasons to add some extra, valid options in ship based combat.

Yes, I wouldn't apply this modifier to ships either. I think there is a definite difference between shooting from a moving wagon which is bouncing on cobblestone streets or the sheer wilderness and shooting from ships which are far more "stable".

RationalLemming wrote:
@cianty... are you going to add this to some recommended 'optional rules' in your FAQ for vehicles? I think that it would be good (similar to the recommended 'optional rules' for mounted warriors that was appended to the rules for the Imperial Outriders warband).

This is included in the recommended FAQ rules of the BTB supplement. However, I am also going to discuss this question in the EIF FAQ as it comes up frequently. We would have to discuss the result on the RR group first though.

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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 9:06

Is there a link to "Vehicles of the Empire" out there? I'm not finding it on Tabletop Geeks.

EDIT: Never mind. Town Cryer 24. Got it.
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 10:04

But here's a question then. Does it ever do any good to attack the guardian? He is only destroyed if the cart is destroyed, but does wounding him take wounds off the cart?
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 11:12

DRD1812 wrote:
But here's a question then. Does it ever do any good to attack the guardian? He is only destroyed if the cart is destroyed, but does wounding him take wounds off the cart?

No. To both questions. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 11:28

Why the heck does he have a toughness? Question
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Thu 14 Apr 2011 - 20:19

RationalLemming wrote:
That sounds fair. I know that in Warhammer Ahoy! warriors do NOT suffer a -1 modifier when shooting from a moving ship.

I'd argue that they don't suffer it on a large SHIP, but would on a rowboat or small craft. When it's something small, every wave or oar stroke changes your position drastically, while larger ships have a more gradual and predictable rhythm (when not in a storm, that is).
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Fri 15 Apr 2011 - 8:49

Further questions for the Plague Cart:

How far can the "Guardian" attack? It's pretty tough to get into btb with the guy, and being stuck to his seat means he's not very mobile. Can he only attack models right next to him, or do we assume he can reach anybody in btb with the cart since he passes them by while in motion? What if an enemy model is standing on the roof of the cart? Can he get at them? Same questions for other passengers...?

Likewise, are cart drivers and passengers at any minuses to hit guys on the ground? What about guys in btb on horseback or carts?
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Mon 18 Apr 2011 - 12:26

I think, although maybe cianty can clear that question up better, that the Guardian can attack anyone in base contact with the cart (this based on the fluff bit that he is just a daemonic entity and an extension of the cart itself).
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Tue 19 Apr 2011 - 9:19

I'd love it if Cianty had the time to clarify. But as I'm sure he's busy feasting in Valhalla I'll have to take your word for it, Myntokk. Smile

Last question then: the rules mention that the crew of a stationary wagon count as "defending an obstacle." I thought that the defended obstacle rules did not apply to Mordheim. Are the cart rules actually a holdover from Warhammer Skirmish, with "defended obstacle" as an unedited detail? Anybody care to clarify?
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Tue 19 Apr 2011 - 13:51

This Cart has been an issue since it was written, as continued in this thread for about a year now. With my group, we played as written. Meaning, since it was listed as a Henchman, and has the “Demonic Aura”, it is a live creature as any other Henchman. I was then corrected and told its Equipment. My question to that was, then why it is not listed under Equipment as such, just like any other Band’s special equipment. And now I ask, why are the horses a rarity value as a necessity to use that piece of “specialty equipment”?

Anyway, We now use it as a piece of equipment and nobody bothers it. When I deploy it, it normally doesn’t leave far from the deployment zone. Its easier to take out warband members of the CoC rather than the time it takes to destroy the Cart. And why would I risk the horses for the Cart which are much easier to OOA and difficult just to replace? And why do we use the Cart anyway if it never moves far? Because of it’s Demonic Aura benefits for having it. It more like a mobile camp Warband now than a warrior running the field. The rules for it as a Stage Coach make it to difficult to use and maintain. Mainly, because each move or so, it’s a risk that it’ll just take off.
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PostSubject: Re: Carnival of chaos. Plague Cart?   Today at 5:17

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