Tom's Boring Mordheim Meeting: House Rules

@ Boehm and everyone who likes the "shields give and additional +1 in close combat on top of the normal +1 to armour save":

WE WILL USE THIS RULE! As i said it makes a lot of sense and I think it is a very good idea.

I'll take it You can relax now. Discussion is over, rule is accepted.

EDIT: (this post is useless since two other posts before this one were just deleted...)

*summons mighty moderator powers*

I have changed the poll options so that everyone can take their vote back and vote differently. So you are now able to vote for "yes" or "no" or whatever the problem was (didn't really get that).

Good job Cianty!
I completely forgot about that option!

I know! That's what I'm here for
- cianty

Thanks for the clarification guys. I think that's a great rule.

Admin Tom wrote:

I said we would be "flexible", not "contorsionists"

Sorry Boehm, but that is too much of a stretch. I can see a second axe hidden under the cloak but not a blunderbuss AND a crossbow!

You have 2 choices:
1) convert the gun to a blunderbuss and stick a crossbow on the mini's back (I have a spare crossbow that I am willing to give you for free if necessary).

2) Change your warband list to: 2xAxe + 1x Pistol.

OK ok ...I will give it a try then

...would anyone know how many crossbows comes with the weapon spruce included in the dwarf-mordheim package available from GW ??

To proporly represent my band I need to equip 6 (potentially 7) dwarves with crossbows ... (perhaps I should just buy a thunderer unit? - I just find those figures a bit dull ...or perhaps thats just me ? )

as to WYSIWUG - do I have to also model rope&hooks etc.? ...how much detail should I go into??

and about equipment??
- do we play with oppulent goods ?? (no dont worry not rabbits feet they are definately a no no ...but I do think oppulent goods are ok, anyone?)
- about HS ...is kislev ranger considered official? ...do we include DPs (dramatis Personae or however its spelled?) Personally I dont like them, they are awfully unbalanced IMO ...anyone??

Claus

i have alot thunderer bows, so i can trade with you

btw, lol about the time you posted boehm, (22:22:22 here XD)

I think most small equipment needn't be represented on the model.

Rope and hook, lucky charm, blessed water etc can easily packed into pockets, so in my opinion there is no need to represent these.

But laterns and larger items should be represented.
At least that's what I think about it.

Erkwin wrote:

Rope and hook, lucky charm, blessed water etc can easily packed into pockets, so in my opinion there is no need to represent these.

So perhaps I should make sure to model many pockets then

(I mean if you look at one of the dwarf slayer figures ...they dont wear too much clothes ...there must be a limit to how many items they can stuff into their pants )

As Tom said, it's essentially the weapons which have to be represented !
So for the ropes, armour and other stuff, we can be more flexible I think (you can't add or delete a gromril armour easily on a mini ! ).

About the rules of opulent goods and other Town Cryer stuff, I think we might be clear with all the equipement we can use in this campaign. If you want, I can do a first selection (I have all the town cryer, just miss the 22th and 26th of them). And it's the same with HS. And for me, no DP please !

Don't worry Boehm, all you need to represent are the weapons.
As long as your warband's equipment can be undestood with a little common sense, you should have no problems.

As Erkwin pointed out, I said that small objects like ropes etc do not have to be represented. Same goes for the torch.

As for the Dramatis Personae, thanks for reminding me, I would agree with you not to use them *adds it to the House Rules List*

May I ask you guys for a favor?

Could anyone who knows this, PM me/post here a list of all Hired Swords that apprear in the Mordheim Annual 2002? I can't seem to determine which exactly they are.
I want to include a list of all hired swords you can take in the house rules, so that there are no confusions.
Thanks a lot!

Boehm wrote:

Erkwin wrote:

Rope and hook, lucky charm, blessed water etc can easily packed into pockets, so in my opinion there is no need to represent these.

So perhaps I should make sure to model many pockets then

My (previous) Gaming didn't worry too much about pockets either as we were well aware of the usefulness of a wonderbra (which comes free with every model)..

One thing I find very important:
Initiative-checks when climbing/jumping etc.

I realised very few players risk taking these, as the result of falling is at least doing nothing for one full round.
So even if you have only a small, tiny gap between two buildings for example, an average human fails his test in 50% of the cases.

This somehow sucks, as most players will try to avoid jumping, climbing, at least if they aren't skaven or elves.

Because of this, and because Tom said we'd have a referee in all games, I think the referee should be able to give boni/mali on initiative-checks.
+1 for a very simple jump over only 1", for example, but -1 for a very difficult one, or maybe because the warrioir is carrying a lot of heavy equipment.

These should make the games (hopefully) more dynamic and also more fun.

What do you think?

Erkwin wrote:

One thing I find very important:
Initiative-checks when climbing/jumping etc.

I realised very few players risk taking these, as the result of falling is at least doing nothing for one full round.

Rope & Hook help quite a bit ...allowing a reroll of climbing checks (though not jumping or testing to fall off if "knocked down")

...but yeah I know what you mean - my dwarfs tend to be afraid of hights ...dreading having to check for falling down whether due to knock down or simply because it might be usefull to vacate the building

Erkwin, I know exactly what you are talking about. But I think that there is a purpose to this initiative thing:

1) I encourages skaven to play more dynamically: climbing/jumping/diving, and humans to play more "statically".

2) There is the RPG factor that can give you better initiatives, so humans become more agile with time and will start taking more risks (hopefully)

3) There is the Rope&Hook special equipment which allows to re-roll.

Adding boni/mali might alter these factors quite a bit... MIGHT.

That being said, I really like your idea of wanting to make the game more dynamic... I will think about a solution to this.
Letting the referee decide is not bad, but i would like to have as few referee interventions as possible. I will give it some thought. Thanks for bringing it up.

Actually, I mean jumping over very short distances.

I'm often asking myself why it should be so difficult to jump over a gap of one meter (in reality), that you fall down in half the cases.

And BTW, rope&hook only works when climbing, not jumping.

At your first point, Tom:
I often hear that many human warbands are boring and not fun to play against, because they are so static. And a very static playstyle really is very boring in most of the cases, because you just stand and shoot, and wait for your opponent to reach you.
That's why I try to encourage players to move, to make the hole game more interesting.

But I think this would go to far for our meeting, these rules should be better thought over before they are tried.

well anyone just holing up in a building waiting for the opponent to come ...unless thats what the scenario calls for is just asking for his opponent to do the same ...then we can both sit hiding in each of our buildings uable to shoot at each other waiting until one of us gets bored ....

thats why I hate scenarios with no objectives ...and think that Tom's idea about more emphasis on objectives is a great idea ...

Erkwin wrote:

I'm often asking myself why it should be so difficult to jump over a gap of one meter (in reality), that you fall down in half the cases.

LOL! Agree

I also agree 200% when you say games should not be static. There is nothing worse.

Don't worry, we will keep people moving with Victory Points (actually I can't understand why they dont have this concept in the rulebook. It's so simple and so elegantly effective).

The only difference between races will be that Skaven will reach the wyrdstone shard faster by climbing and jumping, while the clumbsy humans will stumble around the ruins. It's not bad for humans to have a "low" initiative, because that leaves room for improvement through XP, and encourages the fast skaveen gamestyle (because the skaven player can do things easily, which the others will avoid until they get better at it).

If we give boni/mali to everyone, we might negatively influence the skaven's main strengh: speed and initiative.

HOWEVER: We will probably give a bonus to anyone wanting to jump half an inch. In fact what we usually do in our group, is we treat small gaps as if inexistant! So they can be "walked over". If you look through the rulebook Erkwin, you'll notice that there is a rule that says: any wall or obstacle no higher than 1" can be jumped/climbed over freely. We apply the same to gaps no bigger than 1".

You ALWAYS have to read the rules with a grain of salt, and any player insisting on you taking a test for a tiny jump of half an inch, is a moron (please excuse the term) who has never seen a pair of sports shoes in his life.
(I have jumped gaps of 90cm with boots, backpack, helmet and rifle, and bellieve me, it IS ALSO easily feasable with full equipment).

Admin Tom wrote:

(I have jumped gaps of 90cm with boots, backpack, helmet and rifle, and bellieve me, it IS ALSO easily feasable with full equipment).

still ...I do actually find it a bit odd that wearing heavy armour and a shield ...does not confer a -1 to climbing checks - in the same manner as giving -1 M (thus excluding dwarfs ...their Ini of 2 is rather low enough anyway thankyou !)

Is there no -1 for climbing in heavy armour?

You're right boehm, that should definitely be established.

I see that 8 people have voted. And the poll results seem to indicate that experienced warbands should be allowed.

That's settled then: experienced warbands are allowed, up to a warband rating of 170.

Thanks for voting!

I didnt vote btw, so how can it be 8 persons then?

Admin Tom wrote:

HOWEVER: We will probably give a bonus to anyone wanting to jump half an inch. In fact what we usually do in our group, is we treat small gaps as if inexistant! So they can be "walked over". If you look through the rulebook Erkwin, you'll notice that there is a rule that says: any wall or obstacle no higher than 1" can be jumped/climbed over freely. We apply the same to gaps no bigger than 1".

I also thought about this, and I'm really glad you handle the issue this way.

@ Tag:

Very good question.
Shoudn't it be visible to the Admin who has voted?

That's why I said my vote, I'm sure some people not concerned voted !
(and I'm not agree, I don't want to be the only newbie warband )

Admin Tom wrote:

Don't worry, we will keep people moving with Victory Points (actually I can't understand why they dont have this concept in the rulebook. It's so simple and so elegantly effective).

Don't forget that your Victory Points system tends to favour fast-moving warbands (skaven or possessed for example), whereas slow-moving characters like dwarves have literally no chance to reach the objective.
We already talked about this during our games, Tom: remember that scenario with the wyrdstone shards, each counting as 2 Victory Points? It took poor old Patrick (playing dwarves) 5 turns to reach one wyrdstone, whereas your sprinting possessed (15' movement!!) grabbed two wyrdstones after 2 or 3 turns!
Thus, I believe that this Victory Points system of yours tends to transform the game into a race, where the fastest warband always wins. So IMHO it's good to put some movement in the game and prevent "campers", but not perfect...