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Darkfury
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PostSubject: Rules about skills   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 2:01

Just started Mordheim with a friend and having a lot of fun. I just had a couple of questions about skills to help me choose a couple of new ones. If it matters, my warband is Dark Elves. Not sure if that was wise to start with as they are quite expensive, so my warband started and so far has stayed quite small (7 including a beasthound).

Anyways;
Expert Swordsman only relates to one hand swords not double handers?
Does Quick Shot allow 4 attacks if my DE repeating x-bow man doesn't move? Or is it no benefit at all?

If wielding a double handed sword, I get to strike last in any round. As I see it, Lightning Reflex's alone, I don't think will do anything for me (am I right?) as it would allow us to roll initiative rather than the enemy model automatically striking first as he charged, but I will still swing last with my heavy weapon..? If I also took the Strength skill Strongman, I think I could roll initiative and normally win, does this all sound correct. Of course that's 3 skills to get to that point, as I don't start out with Strength kills without taking a Dark Elf special skill.

Cheers, in advance!
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Jonke
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 3:57

Expert swordsman only works with normal swords (and weeping blades), this is clearly spelled out in the skill description.

I'd say a repeating crossbow is not a crossbow so quick shot doesn't work with it.

And no, lightning reflexes does not override the strike last of a great weapon but you can combine it with strongman.
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Asp
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 5:43

there is some errata somewhere that says that repeaters never work with qs
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Darkfury
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 5:55

Thanks a lot.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 10:18

GW never allows you to double a double. So anytime someone says they can they are wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 11:19

yeah repeaters are pretty crap in mordheim
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 12:17

On expert swordsman, I believe it works on any sword. So while that is a no to double-handed swords (since all double-handed weapons are the same as far as the rules are concerned), I believe it does apply to Weeping Blades (as mentioned) and also to Sword Breakers, which are both "swords + ..."

Dmig wrote:
yeah repeaters are pretty crap in mordheim
Except on the Dark Elf Assassin hired sword, who's killer good (IMO).
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Thu 11 Mar 2010 - 13:12

Two things.
1) Expert swordsman specifically states it affects only swords. Not swordbreakers or rapiers or sword pistols.

2) Quickshot states it affects bows and crossbows (but not crossbow pistols). I do not see the point in bringing up the only other crossbow (the repeater) if one does not also acknowledge that there are short bows, elf bows and longbows. I never hear that Quickshot can't apply to a model armed with a short bow.

Quickshot can be applied to a repeater crossbow. The only result will be the loss of the negative modifier "to hit" since quickshot does not DOUBLE the rate of fire, it allows you to fire twice (which is also what the Repeater Crossbow does). This has been answered by the Rules Mods from specialist games before and perhaps they will weigh in again...
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Fri 12 Mar 2010 - 8:06

After Re-reading my post and Von Kurst's post I realize I wasn't clear.

You don't Double Twice, so you wouldn't get 4 shots all at a -1.

Von Kurst is right that you would only get to ignore the -1 modifer.

Repeater Crossbow
Maximum Range: 24"; Strength: 3; Special Rule: Fire twice
SPECIAL RULE
Fire twice: A model armed with a repeater crossbow may choose to fire
twice per turn with an extra -1 to hit penalty on both shots.

Quick Shot. The warrior may shoot twice per turn
with a bow or crossbow (but not a crossbow pistol).
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Asp
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Fri 12 Mar 2010 - 10:08

Quote :
Quickshot can be applied to a repeater crossbow.

no for the vanilla-heads there is specific errata concerning exactly this saying that QS has no effect on repeater crossbows.

though I agree that it would be more than fair to allow it to stack as suggested (no -1 penalty)

but the repeater sucks, yes. in the first version of mh you could not move and QS bows. that gave it SOME use at least. now that QS has changed there is no point to the repeater what so ever.

personally, i think it should be able to stack with QS to remove the -1 penalty. i also think that the repeater should be armour piercing 1 as in warhammer 7th to justify its price tag.

but all of that is moot, since gw and i clearly agree that elves are inappropriate for mordheim
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Fri 12 Mar 2010 - 15:02

Von Kurst wrote:
Two things.
1) Expert swordsman specifically states it affects only swords. Not swordbreakers or rapiers or sword pistols.

2) Quickshot states it affects bows and crossbows (but not crossbow pistols). I do not see the point in bringing up the only other crossbow (the repeater) if one does not also acknowledge that there are short bows, elf bows and longbows. I never hear that Quickshot can't apply to a model armed with a short bow.

Quickshot can be applied to a repeater crossbow. The only result will be the loss of the negative modifier "to hit" since quickshot does not DOUBLE the rate of fire, it allows you to fire twice (which is also what the Repeater Crossbow does). This has been answered by the Rules Mods from specialist games before and perhaps they will weigh in again...

I stand corrected.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Fri 12 Mar 2010 - 16:57

expert swordsman also affects weeping blades as per errata
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sartori
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Fri 12 Mar 2010 - 18:32

Apples to apples. They're all swords in my group (or sword class weapons), enabling parrying and use of the skill.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Sat 13 Mar 2010 - 7:24

I don't remember seeing errata/clarification that Quick Shot does not work with repeater crossbows, but I may have missed it (or forgotten it). Do you have a reference?

The way we decided Quick Shot works with a RXB is that you can shoot twice at no penalty (using the QS ability but not the RXB ability, basically), or you could shoot three times at -1 (the extra shot the RXB allows, but with the penalty also added back in).
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PostSubject: Re: Rules about skills   Sat 13 Mar 2010 - 8:52

mweaver wrote:
The way we decided Quick Shot works with a RXB is that you can shoot twice at no penalty (using the QS ability but not the RXB ability, basically), or you could shoot three times at -1 (the extra shot the RXB allows, but with the penalty also added back in).

This is the option that makes most sense IMHO.
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