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PostSubject: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 9:53

I have long been thinking about getting myself the rulebook for Necromunda, and the interest is large within our gaming group, but as we havent played a single game of Necromunda, I feel I must ask:
Is Necromunda basically Mordheim 40K (minus the wyrdstone, dwarves and skaven)?

That is, is the rulesets the same (with experience and the like), are they more complicated and difficult to keep track of? I have read the rulebook online (pdf), but the sheer amount of text on a computer screen make me nauceous. I know there is differences, but how large? If you enjoy Mordheim, will you anjoy Necromunda as well?

Can someone please advice me on this issue?
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 10:22

its basically 2nd edition 40k on a skirmish scale. with mordheim type details put in

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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 10:33

So is it worth a look at if you like Mordheim and lasers? I am not that experienced with the 2nd edition rules (or any other edition as I've never played 40k at all).
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 10:58

Necromunda is one of those games I LOVE, paint minis/make terrain for that I ACTUALLY have never played. HOWEVER, from familiarizing myself with the rules, THE major difference between Mordheim & Necromunda, other than the obvious, is that ALL the Gamg members, not JUST the heroes, gain experience & advancement in exactly the same way...SO that lowly Juve may wind up over taking/passing the original Gang Leader.

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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 11:46

For me the major difrence between Mordheil and Necromunda is that warbads in Nercomunda dont differ as mutch as Mordheim warbands.

Especialy in the basic rules is like playing 6 types of merchanaries. Different storys diffrent minis but in therms of gameplay they only differ in skill choises, makes the first battles totaly even as nobody got exp to advance.

So u need to go for additional rules (outlanders) fast to get a set of really differing warbands, or need to wait till basic warbands are more experianced.

Shooting is more important, close cambat is fast and hard, no draws no fighting over 3 rounds, just charge hit kill or die.
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 12:04

Necromunda is a skirmish based on 40k's 3rd edition (with minor influences of 2nd)... 40k is on its 5th edition. The game is fun, but is plagued with minor ultra-micromanagement issues (in my opinion)... you can only fire weapons on a certain arc of fire (unlike Mordheim or 40k), weapons jam, overwatch (which can paralyze the game), and the gangs are not a diverse (or defined) as Mordheim's warbands. If you have the patience you will probably like the game.

That said... I invite you to check out Death Squads at www.DeathSquadsGame.com. It is a new fan-created 40k skirmish game (based on 5th edition) that some of us have been working for quite some time. It is NOT Mordheim-in-Space nor Updated-Necromunda... although it has elements of both games. The game is VERY stable right now and you can use it as a single game skirmishes, skirmish campaigns or as preludes (or special games) for regular 40k! You can play Squads of Imperial Guard (Cadians, Catachans, Death Korps, Mordians, Urban Fighters, Ice Guard), Orks, Eldar or Imperial Renegades. More Squads on the work! Some include Kroot, Chaos Cultists and Space Marine Scouts.

Check it out!
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 14:00

I second Mordheimer on checking on Death Squads as it is an interesting combination of Necro, Mordheim, Space Hulk and other playtested rules.

With that on Necromunda, Deafnala hit it on the head, the income level is different and basically everyone can get skills just lke heroes. It is a intersting game.

If you want more than humans blasting each other away check out our Death Squad game. It is a blast and the rules are free.

Regards
Da Bank
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 14:01

I would disagree with Mordheimer about Necromunda being based on 3rd Ed 40k as it was released 3 years before 3rd. The gameplay mechanics are quite different (measurements are based on 4" divisions rather than 6", and models must choose between close combat or shooting in a turn).

Basic Necromunda is quite easy to learn and memorise. There is more book keeping than in Mordheim as you have to track things like Flesh Wounds and which models are out of ammo. Easy done with counters or a pencil and paper though.

It's best to start out with one of the 6 House Gangs before starting with the Outlander types as they can add complications for new players. Despite House Gangs being fundamentally the same, player tactics and available skills will make the gangs play very differently, plus even "shooty" gangs can end up with a lot of close combat stats, depending on advance rolls, so gameplay can vary a lot and it's best not to typecast a gang.
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 14:33

Forgot to mention that Necromunda has "pinned" it is a variant of Mordheim's Knocked Down and Stunned. I personally, don't like pinned.

Read up on the Necro rules and you will see what I mean.
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 15:01

Well Ancient, you are right. Wink Although all GW skirmishes are based on 4" movements (because of the scale), Necromunda was originally based on many aspects of Rogue Trader (40k 2nd edition)... but the influences of tactics spill over to 3rd Edition especially after the expansions.

Do not get me wrong; Necromunda is fun and all... especially if you take it as a complete different game. Just like if you play poker and decide to learn go-fish; different games played with the same cards. I personally do not like Necromunda because I feel there is a 'void' on 40k at a small skirmish level and Necro does not fill it. WH40k is at an Universal scale, spanning millions of worlds and billions of people. Necromunda is based on a Hive City; conflicts among its inhabitants (gangs). Just like Mordheim, is it VERY hard to transport the game out of its setting successfully... kindda like Lustria may feel like Mordheim-in-the-jungle, or Khemri may feel like Mordheim-in-the-desert. You can change the Hive and the game works... and even take it "outside" with Ash Wastes, but adding other races feel like an after though.

To me, personally, the game is about the evolution of YOUR gang and how you can get advancements to differentiate from the other gangs. It is a fun challenge, but may get repetitive. In terms of game mechanics, the game does show its age. Sure you can track of all with book-keeping, but some seems too much (almost unnecessary.) A friends deals with firing arcs by painting a strip on the model's bases and using counters. Someone bumps the table and the beads may move... OPPPS! Having a bunch of papers is very bulky. You could use 2 or 3 sheets for Mordheim and Death Squads (which I still think is too much!), so having 4 or 5 is just more papers to dig information out. This slows the pace of the game; how many times have you said 'Hold on... let me check what this guy has?' and slow down a critical moment? Now imagine to have to keep track of minuscule things (such as ammo) at all times?

Overwatch is a nice concept, but it cripples playability. Basically you can set a fighter in 'waiting' mode... when an enemy is in Line of Sight he can shoot. Now if you and I set most of out gangs to Overwatch, it becomes a wonderful game of 'waiting who makes the first move'. Its the Cold War all over. As fun as watching golf on TV; some people like it... not me. Some other rules, like ammo limitations, are also a big turn off (again... to me!) It is the MMO syndrome; your character is a jeweler? You have to make 5,000 beads necklaces so to gain the skill to learn how to make a double-bead necklace! You have to click on the button every single time... and eventually you graduate to make the cool jewelery. Realistic? Yes. Fun? No. You are a GANG MEMBER... you live by a code of violence... and you don't carry enough bullets for an average conflict (about 100 shots... 5 heavy clips)? *sight* For game mechanics, its easier to assume you do and get rid of the concept.

'Jamming' is also a realistic feature that sucks the life out of the playability. I understand if you have a low-quality (cheap & crappy) weapon... but for most? Sure, one rule to make it work... but why? Those type of detailed ruling are fine when you deal with one character... but when you are handling 15 it is not as nice. Many rules in Necromunda reflect the fact that Rogue Trader was an RPG first, and miniature game second. As GW evolved, they removed many of the RPG elements in favor of a pure miniature game for larger systems (40k, WHFB and later Apocalypse). This is where skirmishes REALLY shine... you can combine both worlds fine! Now, since Necromunda was on the fore-front of this merging, TO ME it seems to suffer from lack of balance between the two concepts.

If you are looking to play some stories based on a Hive setting among gangs and want to deal with severe book-keeping, give it a chance! If you play Mordheim you have 85% down and the rest is not hard to learn. If you want to be free to play any setting you want (even Hives and gangs like Necromunda) with many races (plain humans as well as other typical 40k races) you may way to try Death Squads; specially if you already play 40k. You would be able to make your campaign evolve to 40k games and even Apocalypse. If you play Mordheim you have 90% down and the kinds of games that you can play are limited by your own imagination.

Good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Sun 10 Jan 2010 - 9:10

Part of the charm of Necromunda for moi is that it ISN'T 40K. It's more a futuristic Gang Wars ala Mad Max without the Elves/Orcs/Daemons In Space or any of the baggage from 40K. If you want a 40K skirmish style game, I'd go for Death Squad. If you're into Mad Max, Necromunda has a lot to offer.

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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Sun 10 Jan 2010 - 12:31

Or if you many strictly Mad Max play GorkaMorka but with Orks.

Deaf is correct, now that I sit and reflect, Necromunda is a microcosim the 40K Universe and as we have noticed GW has never really put their full effort into True Skirmish Games.

As Deafnala noted, Death Squads is the "bridge" that will gap GorkaMOrka, Necromunda, and Space Hulk into a true 40K Skirmish Game.
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Sun 10 Jan 2010 - 15:36

I am seriously going to check out death squads, as the things mentioned here about Necromunda are the things I seriously dislike (like the warbands being too similar, too many cluttering rules and options, and most of all, the warband dynamic, with a badly designed system for "heroes" and "henchmen" that, for me, is essential in these kind of games).

Thanks to everyone whp posted, i found it very interesting and it has helped me make up my mind. That said, I might still order a copy of the Necromunda rulebook, even though I might like Death Squads even more Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Sun 10 Jan 2010 - 15:46

Yea! Another converted to the Dark Side...er...um...I mean another to the good side.
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Sun 10 Jan 2010 - 15:47

Bare in mind that the Necro rulebook is free to download from the GW site so there's no harm in getting it to look through.
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Sun 10 Jan 2010 - 15:50

yeah, i know, i allready got it on my computer, but I really prefer having it as a book than on screen Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Sun 10 Jan 2010 - 18:03

Lol... another convert. Silly Da Bank! Hehehehe...

Seriously, the only very UNIQUE advantage that Death Squads has over most games (at least all GW games) is that if you want to get a hold of anyone who designs, or better yet... contribute yourself.... it is 100% sure! The Core Rules are very solid (the games plays exceptionally well) but there is always room for few tweaks, if bugs are found. Discussions of new Squads are floating around and at least 2 Squads will be stressed-tested very soon! DaBank (Kroot), Dozer (Chaos Cultists) and myself (Catachans) will be entering a testing period in a couple of weeks (at the latest!) Like always, thanks to our gracious host... the all mighty AdminTom, we will be sharing our campaign reports here as well as in our forums.

So, check the forum out... get the rules and see if you like 'em. Play the game as written and make sure to tell us what you like and dislike (and why) so we get a feel for your point of view! If you want, you could aply to beta-test new Squads! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Necromunda vs Mordheim   Mon 11 Jan 2010 - 3:18

I will, and being a beta-tester would be awesome, if I can just pull out some of my friends from their Fantasy-Dementia for a few hours Razz
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