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sartori
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PostSubject: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Wed 6 Jan 2010 - 19:32

This is my take on a Champions of Chaos warband. It's based off the current Warriors of Chaos army book for WHFB, and no I have not tested it yet. I'm pretty sure either myself or one of my friends will be testing it out in the coming months. Thought I would throw it out there for input.

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Thu 7 Jan 2010 - 1:08

Pretty cool warband! Now I must paint one for each god of chaos, thanks a lot Razz

*sigh* my wallet is getting thinner by the minute! CAN SOMEONE PLEASE STOP CREATING COOL NEW WARBANDS!!!

Smile
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Horatius
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Thu 7 Jan 2010 - 3:00

At first glance this warband seems to be quite balanced, the stats are not overdone (marauders even seem to be a bit underrated compared to the BTB Chaos Marauders) and the spells and equipment seem to be fine, too.
With only 4 heroes and a maximum warband size of 12 but strong individual models they seem to have both strenght and weaknesses, just as it should be.
That said some of the special gifts and marks could be too strong (especially stream of corruption), but without playtesting them this is only a feeling.
In the spell list you state that a sorcerer with a mark of chaos lowers that spells difficulty - but under the written rules they cant get a mark. Seems strange .
Playtest them and let us know how it works out!
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Thu 7 Jan 2010 - 6:54

Not saying it's a bad idea, but I'm curious fluffwise why you chose to give the Chaos Hounds the Ld reroll ability for fear, etc. Care to share?
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Thu 7 Jan 2010 - 15:59

@ Horatius: Marks, Gifts, and Spells all need to be tweaked, of course. I was thinking the "once per game" stipulation might keep the Stream of Corruption skill in check like a Blunderbuss (and it's a flame template instead of a straight line). Also, in WHFB it has a -1 modifier to armour saves, which I took out. However, I could still see it being possibly unbalanced.

Sorcerers are only restricted from the Mark of Khorne. They're allowed to use any other Mark. Did I miss something where I state they can't take ANY Marks? (hope not).


@ whisper2053: It isn't a fluff thing with the Hounds having the Ld re-roll. It's called "The Will of Chaos", and pretty much the entire army from the newest Chaos army book has that ability (including the dogs). Check it out here.
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Thu 7 Jan 2010 - 16:04

Ahhh I see. Interesting that GW decided that even the animals get it though. I guess that's indicative of the Chaosers beating/starving/etc their doggies to the point where they're just rabid killing machines that know no fear Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Thu 7 Jan 2010 - 16:57

Whisper:
Have you seen a chaoshound?
it's not exactly you nanns old terrier that barks till it realizes it teeny. Razz
But the weakwilled manling praying to anything with a fetish I don't know.
But for me the whole warband thing in general gives the vibe of people
a bit more specialized and in the know so it could work from that angle.
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Thu 7 Jan 2010 - 19:40

Oh yes, I've most certainly seen one. Or a dozen or so lol. One of the guys in our Mordheim group runs about 12 of them in his Beastmen Raiders warband and we all absolutely detest them Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 3:09

Sartori:
I meant the fact that only the leader is allowed to take a mark of chaos when you start a warband, i did not realize that it is also available as a skill.

For the stream of corruption you have to think about the size of the template. It is easy to get 3 or more models under it, much easier than with the blunderbuss straight line rule. For many warbands that would be an instant rout test if you get lucky with your dice. The only way to avoid this is to spread your models out, which leaves them vulnerable to close combat attacks from more than one opponent. And that is exactly what the chaos player wants.

Ive got a question regarding the forsaken: Do they really get an extra attack if they use two weapons, e.g. D3+2 instead of D3+1?
I do think so, and that makes them very strong. On average they get 4 strength 4 attacks. Add the fact that you can hire 5 of them and you have got a really strong close combat group, even if they have to attack and get no xp.
Maybe you should not allow them to use any weapons or equipment or you should limit their numbers to 2.
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 3:53

Horatius wrote:
Sartori:
I meant the fact that only the leader is allowed to take a mark of chaos when you start a warband, i did not realize that it is also available as a skill.


Yeah, the Marks and Gifts are their Special Skills choices.


Horatius wrote:
For the stream of corruption you have to think about the size of the template. It is easy to get 3 or more models under it, much easier than with the blunderbuss straight line rule. For many warbands that would be an instant rout test if you get lucky with your dice. The only way to avoid this is to spread your models out, which leaves them vulnerable to close combat attacks from more than one opponent. And that is exactly what the chaos player wants.

I see what you mean!! Haven't tested it obviously, but I can see where this may be a problem. I'll probably either change it out with something else or tone it way down. Do you think S2 would be feasible? Maybe make it a very short range blunderbuss (like a 2" wide 6" long line) or something. Also could consider using the small flamer template from the Monster Hunt scenario.



Horatius wrote:
Ive got a question regarding the forsaken: Do they really get an extra attack if they use two weapons, e.g. D3+2 instead of D3+1?
I do think so, and that makes them very strong. On average they get 4 strength 4 attacks. Add the fact that you can hire 5 of them and you have got a really strong close combat group, even if they have to attack and get no xp.
Maybe you should not allow them to use any weapons or equipment or you should limit their numbers to 2.

Yep, you're right - and that's not what I intended with them. I did want them to be able to take armour, but not the ability to gain extra attacks. I can either make them their own equipment section, limit them to no weapons (which I'm not sure I'm keen on), or just make them `no equipment allowed' like ghouls - so you can model them however you like, but it's purely aesthetic if you put weapons on them. I think I'm liking the last option. Alternatively, they could get D3 attacks keeping the current equipment rules.
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 5:58

The small template from the monster hunt would be good IMO

The forsaken should be unarmed but without penalties for being unarmed (-1S etc.) and have the d3+1 attacks. I think that would be ok.

In general it seems balanced and i might try it soon as i have been looking for a chaos warrior warband for some time.
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 18:14

Will of chaos is re-roll panic, not fear.
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Fri 8 Jan 2010 - 18:52

Ok, made changes to Forsaken, and Stream of Corruption.

Updated pdf is here.

I think mrbretonnia is correct, and I believe the analog to Mordheim for Will of the Forsaken would be rout testing. So I will probably remove the ability from each individual model, and give it to the warband as a whole - counting as a rout test re-roll (possibly limited to the first check only).

Thanks for the heads up mrbretonnia.
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Sat 9 Jan 2010 - 17:12

Made changes to Will of Forsaken so that it is a warband ability, not an individual warrior ability.

Updated pdf is here.
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PostSubject: Re: Champions of Chaos EXPERIMENTAL warband   Today at 21:59

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