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PostSubject: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 31 Jan 2009 - 17:11

EDIT:
The most up to date version will always be found in this first post, as well as the post when i introduce it chronologically. Please contribute your thoughts if you play test this warband, it would be very much appreciated!

Please note that if you are a new viewer of this thread, the first few pages will make little sense. The questions in this first post are in relation to the warband that i used as the base for my version. Unless you want to watch my list develop, skip to the most recent version update posting: Page 5

Newest Version: Night Goblins version 0.9

Thank you to everyone who has added their opinions here. Without all your suggestions this warband would not be what it is now.




ORIGINAL POST:
I am making a Night Goblin warband
The whole project was inspired by these rules by Terry Maltman: LINK

Reading over it (i know it is a work in progress and unofficial) i have
struck a few quandaries. I intend to play this warband
seriously (well as seriously as Gobbos can be!) so I need to
basically finish writing the rules in a fair way. I want see
how people here would rule these situations before i approach my
gaming group with these unofficial and potentially broken rules.

1)
Animosity: As it is written, it is very clear. Rather than
rolling for each model like Orcs, you roll for the entire warband
with a single die and if you roll a "one" no model
may act!

Surely this interpretation is just me misunderstanding poorly
a written description that is not explained in detail because the
author assume people will use the Orcish standard convention for
animosity (roll individually), correct?

2)
Continuing from above, it does not say whether Heroes are immune. I see this is meant to simplify how animosity works, but it seems like it is too streamline. I wouldn't mind rolling 19 more times if it means the game will be more varied, characterful, "realistic" and fun.

3)
Ded Shooty: This goblin skill is worded exactly like Eagle Eyes.
Why would a skill be duplicated from the basic shooting skills unless
they intend for Night Goblins to have access to them both and their
abilities stack?

4)
If my hero has Dead Shooty, Eagle Eyes,
Weapons Expert and is armed with a crossbow, he would then be able to
shoot 36". Is this broken? How about 22"
Pistolier with Hand Crossbows or Dueling Pistols?

5)
Suerley the author overlooked Squig Prodders right? Should they be in
the miscellaneous section just like Orcs?

6)
And lastly, if someone went through all the trouble to buy and painting the models
would you play against this warband? Would you play if that
player then edited an unofficial warband in the spirit of the rules
and fairness?


Last edited by Pathfinder Dubstyles on Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 22:52; edited 18 times in total (Reason for editing : fixed link, new host)
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 31 Jan 2009 - 17:48

1) I would use the vannilla O&Gs animosity.

2) I would say heroes are affected, but if I wrote the rules I'd make them immune.

3) It looks to me as if it's stackable. The warband should have something limiting this, maybe an inability to use human size weapons (such as crossbows, longbows, handguns). And something limiting there use of Black Powder (misfire on 1-2?).

4) dittto

5) I think yes.

6) yes, if strength skills were removed.

PS. I would advise lowering the Big Boss cost to 40.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 31 Jan 2009 - 18:54

I've been looking for a Night Goblin warband myself - but they all seem to lack something. First off, there's no need for a troll since it'll be completely useless with the goblins leadership.. 2nd - no exp for the fanatics removes the chance of gettin an extra attack (and doubling it) and without 4 attacks the madcap mushrooms are simply not worth it..
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 31 Jan 2009 - 19:41

Night Goblins!

Animosity--I'd import the rules from the Forest Goblin list from Nemesis Crown, including the Boss Stick.

Ded Shooty--I don't see it as necessary or in character for the warband.

Squig Prodders a must. Mad Cap mushrooms should be common and/or less expensive.

I'd play against it. I have to ask if this offering is the best available? I haven't looked for a Night Goblin list, but it needs something more Night Gobliny. Squig Rider would be a nice skill. A Giant Cave Squig choice would be nice as well. And the skill Ride Giant Squig!

Good hunting,
js
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 31 Jan 2009 - 22:58

Oh yeah forgot about animosity! I've read another Night Goblin warband where the leader and shaman didn't have animosity but the other heroes could buy it off as a skill - seems fair to me! (that warband had the "boss poles" as well - a spear making everybody within 6" immune to animosity, including the wearer even if he hadn't removed it with a skillchoice.. seems stupid to me)
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 1 Feb 2009 - 18:27

Yes since forest goblins are official i should borrow from it, why didn't i think of that!. Ded Shooty is redundant, but skill wise they don't have much going for them. I agree they should not have access to strength skills.

I'll look into that and post my ideas on blending Night Goblins with a little bit of Forest Goblins.

Edit: Ride giant squig is a must! I was just going to just count it as a wolf so i could use that amazing model!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 1 Feb 2009 - 18:45

What about importing Backstabber from the Imperial Assassin?

Also under Special Rules the rule Cave Dweller or some such to make it clear that Night Goblins have night sight?
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 1 Feb 2009 - 19:31

Snotling Mob: The Snotling Warband Ram Rock and I are working on isn't done just yet, but I recommend that the mob be changed, and be either:
a) merged into one mob, with W3 and A3. Remove the Weedy and Insignifigant rule; or
b) be broken into 5 separate Snotlings, costing 10gc each. Any time a hero takes one out of action, they receive half an exp, rounded up at the end of the game.

In case you're interested, here are the two Night Goblin Hired Swords I wrote, based on the Squig Hopper and the Doom Diver. Haven't had a chance to test 'em yet.

NIGHT GOBLIN SQUIG HOPPER HIRED SWORD
50gc to hire, 20gc upkeep


Squig herding is a tough and dangerous business, and the few Night Goblins who survive long enough to get good at it are covered with enough scars and bite marks that their original features are no longer discernable. A few of the bravest or craziest herders, however, will go one step further, and attempt to ride the Squigs into battle. This is less of a mount and more of a one-animal stampede. The squig moves as squig wants, and all the Goblin can do is hang on for dear life!

May be hired by: Da Mob, Black Orcs, Forest Goblins, Night Goblins.
Unreleased Warbands: May also be hired by JAFisher44's Ogre Warband, and by RamRock's /StyrofoamKing's Snotling Warband.

A Squig Hopper increases your warband rating by 21 points, +1 point for each experience.

Code:
   M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   Ld
Hopper   4   2   3   3   3   1   2   1   5
Squig   2D6”   4   0   5   3   1   5   2   2

Equipment: Carries a club or axe (choose at purchase) and a shield.
Skills: A Squig Hopper may learn Combat or Cavalry skills. Any skills learned apply only to the rider, not to the Squig.

SPECIAL RULES
MOVEMENT Each movement phase, during the compulsory movement phase, nominate a direction and roll 2 - 1D6" dice, keeping track which of them is the 'first' dice. The first dice is how far the squig leaps. This move bounces over opposing man-sized models, including enemies, and obstacles 1" high, without penalty, and also carries the hopper over gaps. The second dice shows the creatures second bounce, which is slightly lower to the ground. It also moves without penalty and ignores terrain obstacles 1", but if it comes into contact with an enemy or friendly model, it will stop and attack it; this counts as a charge. If the two dice comes up a double, randomly determine a direction: the squig performs its two bounces in that direction instead of the one you chose.
Once the squig bounces in contact with a model, the Squig will attack as described below and bounce off again. Nominate a direction once more and move the Squig Hopper again in the same way. Continue to bounce the Squig Hopper and continue to attack until it fails to land on a model.
If a Squig's bouncing takes into a river or lake, both the rider and the squig sink like a stone! The same applies to a squig that bounces off the board: it is considered out of action (do not roll for injury for going off the board.)
PSYCHOLOGY: The Squig is completely immune to psychology, and it, not the rider, determines the movements of the pair. The Goblin rider is immune to All Alone and Animosity. If the Goblin fails a Fear Test when charging a Fear causing model, the Squig moves and attacks as normal, and the rider is at 6's to hit.
FIGHTING: Whenever the Squig bounces in contact with a model (friend or foe), it immediately attacks, following the normal order of attacks. The rider must attack if it comes into contact with an enemy model, but may choose not to against allies or NPCs. Roll to hit and damage as normal. Once the Squig and the Rider make all their attacks, the squig bounces off, before the defender fights back. The only way the defender is allowed to attack is if he has any attacks that strike before either the charging squig or goblin, through the normal means (Lightning Reflexes, Whipcrack, Spear, etc.) When bouncing, the creature leaves combat without penalty.
CHARGING: Charging and attacking a Squig Hopper is treated exactly like attacking a normal mounted model. Once engaged in hand-to-hand combat, a Hopper is pinned to the ground and may not hop until it flees or until all engaged opponents are taken out of action.
SHOOTING: Squig Hoppers are treated as normal cavalry when hit with missile fire. Remember that being mounted grants the Rider a +1 armor save in shooting and in Hand to Hand.
MOUNTED: The Squig Hopper follows all of the normal rules for mounts as listed in the 'Empire in Flames' mounted section. The Hunter is treated as already having the skill 'Ride Squig' (not that it shows!) The exception is that the rider may never voluntarily dismount the squig, nor may it be led.

SPECIAL SKILLS:
Apply the Spurs: The rider digs in the spurs or flexes the whip, causing the Squig to hop 3D6 inches instead of 2D6 (the first bounce is a leap, and the second two are closer to the ground.) If any of the dice are doubles or triples, the squig still moves randomly.

High Bounce: Roll for 2D6" for movement as normal, but the Squig leaps over any models and 2" terrain in a single bound. If it lands exactly on a model, it attacks it as normal. You must declare you are using this skill at the beginning of your movement phase before rolling any dice, and applies to all bouncing this turn. May be used with 'Apply the Spurs'.


DOOM DIVER HIRED SWORD
Cost: 15 Upkeep 5

Originally a form of reconnaissance, the Doom Divers (also known as ‘Bat-winged loonies’) are witless Goblins that are strapped to a catapult with crude leather wings strapped to their wings. The wings are not capable of giving the diver the ability to fly, but they grant him some resemblance of steering as he plummets to the ground. Outside of battle, a few goblins actually try the wings without the catapult, gliding from rooftop, or diving bombing themselves into an enemy model.

Increases the rating by +5, plus +1 per experience point.

May be Hired by: Da Mob Orcs, Forest Goblins, and Black Orcs.
Unofficial Warbands: May also be hired by JAFisher44 Ogre Warband, and by RamRock's/ StyrofoamKing's Snotling Warband.

Code:
M   WS   BS   S   T   W   I   A   Ld
4   2   3   3   3   1   3   1   5

Equipment: Head Spike, Two Daggers, Leather Wings, Hook and Rope
Skills: The Goblin may learn from the Combat and Speed list.

SPECIAL RULES
Animosity See the Orc Warband.

Head Spike: A head mounted spike. When charging (from the air or land) the Goblin may use the head spike instead of normal weapons. It provides +1 Strength in the first round of combat. It may not be used with an additional hand weapon. In further rounds of combat, the Doom Diver may switch to his daggers.

Leather Wings: The goblin is equipped with a pair of feathered or bat-like wings. The wings are not strong enough to allow the goblin to fly in the proper sense, but they do allow the goblin to glide down from an elevated position. If the goblin is above the table-top surface (on a roof, walkway, etc.) it may glide down at a rate of 2" horizontally for each inch of downward vertical movement. It may make a normal walk move before or after gliding (it may move before and after gliding, but may not charge and may not walk more than normal movement, i.e. 4").

Diving: When making diving charges, the goblin may make charges against any model within Glide range (see rules above)... measure the distance after declaring the charge. He may also attempt diving charges from heights higher 6". If the charge fails (out of charge range, fails Initiative test,) he is considered to have fallen from the full height that he is diving from. The goblin is required to take only one Initiative test, rather than once per 2".

Fearless: When making Diving Charges, the model is Immune to Psychology. The vampire's a little less scary when the fall's gonna kill ya first...

SPECIAL SKILL
'Catapault Crafter' : From a few scraps of wood and rope, the Doom Diver has trained himself to construct simple launchers. If the Doom Diver is set-up within your warband's normal deployment zone and at ground level, you may have the Doom Diver be launched 3D6" directly upwards. From that height, the Doom Diver may attempt to glide or diving charge as normal, as if he was gliding or diving from a building of that height. The Catapault has only enough strength to launch the doom diver once per game. The diver cannot move before being launched.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 5:28

Hey StyrofoamKing, thanks for the hired swords, they are great I especially like the Doom Diver in
training!

Mylilpwny, I wouldn't discount the Troll. Leave it in for those who wanted the option although i wouldn't hire one personally unless i already had 19 other models.

Also i think Snotlings should be treated as equipment, mush like Noblars,
only w/o counting as a member for warband size. Just b/c they
come in mobs in Warhammer doesn't mean they should in Mordheim.

Von Kurst, the Forest Goblins use the regular Orc animosity rules which i
think work well. Although i did read somewhere that Night
Goblins are the most cowardly type of goblin so maybe they wouldn't
attack each other? Does anyone know if there a precedence for
Night Goblins and animosity in Warhammer?

Lots can be taken from the Forest Goblin list, the spells especially, sort of a lesser
Waaghh Magic.


I don't like the bosspole myself...

I'm tired, i need to divert attention onto work, taxes and other stuff for the next few days but i'll keep
this in the back of my head. Maybe when my robed greenskins
arrive in the mail i will be spurred into action again.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 6:19

I think Night Goblins suffer from ordinary animosity. Even though they are cowards, they are still evil little gits and certainly not afraid of themselves, so I'd say they fight each other (at least) as much as other greenskins do.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 18:08

check the link in my signature, NG is the most playtested warband ˝ year in the making.

i'd be happy to provide feedback for any NG rules you write for vanilla mordheim (our rules engine is different)


--------

Some things that should IMO apply to all Gobbo warbands:

- Cap 20
- No Strength Skills
- Max S/T 3
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 0:10

Animosity--The Bosspole makes the game flow faster by cutting down the number of animosity rolls most of the time. Animosity rolls will still be there in any scenario where the goblins are spread out or if the Leader goes OOA.

I'm not fond of the all or nothing roll of the WIP warband either. (Although maybe I should play a campaign that way and find out...)

Night Goblins are known to be just as nasty and deadly to each other as any other goblins.

Styrofoamking--I like the hired swords. The Doom Diver seems a bit complicated on paper, but I'd love to give him a try. I think they would add a lot of character to a warband.

Forest Goblins/Night Goblins--I think using the FG spell list as a general Goblin list would be a good thing.

Asp--Can't read your pdf on my home computer. (its old) I've played the Lustria version of the Forest Goblins twice. I am looking forward to the Nemesis Crown version which allows S 4 T 4 goblins with 3 wounds and 4 attacks max. I don't get the limit to S/T 3. Its not reflected in Warhammer rules or characteristics. Why in Mordheim?

js
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 16:24

Quote :
I don't get the limit to S/T 3. Its not reflected in Warhammer rules or characteristics. Why in Mordheim?

i see - just take it as personal opinion then

(a gobbo with higher T than an Elf?) :-o
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 21:48

Asp wrote:


(a gobbo with higher T than an Elf?) :-o

Grom the Paunch for example! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 7 Apr 2009 - 23:38

I have a first draft of my Night Goblin Warband!

EDIT: Scroll down for latest version...

Firstly I would like to acknowledge Terry Maltman, the author of the original Night Goblin Warband, The Nemesis Crown Team for their Forest Goblin Warband, and whoever the original author of the Orc and Goblin warband is.

I lifted the heroes of the Forest Goblins without changing much, equipment is common sense. Henchmen are Goblins, Squigs and Trolls form the Orc and Goblin list, and reworked the Fanatics and Snotlings from the Night Goblin list.

I tried to use as much material as i could from previously published warbands that are considered official or close to official. I made snotlings easier to buy and changed how Fanatics work from Terry's list to gain exp. but never become heroes. I also removed their strike first because i saw it as overpowered.

For skills i took Terry's as inspiration and added some from the Hochland Bandits. I changed how Ded Shooty works to not just copy Eagle Eye but offer it's own unique effect. Netter is an issue, some think it is overpowered, some think is is weak. I tried changing it to work as a c-c weapon that hits like a crossbow pistol with auto knock down but it was fiddly. In the end i kept it as the original but am open for suggestions. I also have two new skills i created which are at the end of the list (right after snotlings). I would like feedback on these two skills and if they are suitable for the warband or over/under powered. The leader one is inspired by Rebel Grots in GorkaMorka and the Mushroom Cultivator is something they should definitely have!


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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 7 Apr 2009 - 23:43

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
Firstly I would like to acknowledge Terry Maltman, the author of the original Night Goblin Warband, The Nemesis Crown Team for their Forest Goblin Warband, and whoever the original author of the Orc and Goblin warband is.

The Forest Goblins were written by the Lustria team. They were not published by GW and we thought it would be a great opportunity to finally release them so we put them in the Nemesis Crown supplement. But all credits for the warband go to the Lustria folks.

Orcs and Gobbos were written by famous Mark Havener. Almighty author of the Orcs, Dwarf Treasure Hunters, Random Happenings, Multiplayer rules, etc. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 7 Apr 2009 - 23:45

Noted and i will change my acknowledgments in the final document, thanks.

Edit: i just realized i did not acknowledge myself as the author/compiler!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 8 Apr 2009 - 9:14

I doubt this is intentional, but you've created the best (long-term) hero shooting warband I've ever seen. Later in a campaign it is not unreasonable to have 5 heroes with quick shot crossbows able to target any model in sight, while remaining hidden. I am not aware of any other warband which has such capability. The Ded Shooty skill is a very, very good shooting skill, and you combine it with the old-style sniper skill, well regarded as one of the cheapest and most powerful skills in the game.

I would suggest removing the sniper skill, as I don't think it fits well with gobbos. If you do keep it, look at how the sniper skill was updated in the 2002 Mordheim Annual. It takes away the incredible cheese of the skill while keeping it powerful.

Some people like to limit the number of models with infiltrate, and I would tend to agree with such practice. Once again, a player who decides to take 6 infiltrating heroes and the sneaky git skill would be almost guaranteed a win in many objective-based scenarios.

To make fanatics viable, I think the cost of mad cap mushrooms needs to be decreased. Right now fielding a single fanatic with minimum equipment costs 60 gold, and each subsequent battle costs 25 gold in mushroom upkeep, which doesn't even factor in the cost of death and replacement. With that factored in, a single fanatic has well over twice the upkeep of your troll. All this for a 1 wound, 3 toughness model which suffers from stupidity on leadership 6...

I absolutely love what you've done with the snotlings. They have the right mix of good and bad attributes, and they add great flavor to the warband. Having 5 snotlings and 19 other warband members might be a bit much, although it does give the warband a great "quantity over quality" mentality.

I like the warband starting with 6 heroes, but I don't like having 4 of those being identical. Perhaps you could have 2 types of bosses (I'm not familiar with the goblin ranking system besides boss and big-boss) with 0-2 of each. Maybe one of the boss types starts out already immune to animosity and has WS 3 for 25 gold, and the other type starts at BS2 for 15 gold?

I'm not sure if you considered this, but it could be fun to add a squig mount possibility for your heroes.

Spells:
Wind of Gork - Being knocked down before the combat phase is a very good effect. I'd probably bump this spell up to D7.

'Eadbanger: I'd write "base attacks" for the sake of clarity. This spell strikes me as way underpowered. Without stat upgrades, you're as likely to take yourself OOA as the enemy, and this is a D8 range 6" spell? Even with an attack and toughness upgrade, it's 2 strength 4 hits at D8, that's still worse than warpfire's base hit (not to mention warpfire's splash damage). Also you still have a good chance of taking yourself OOA and your range is less...

Leap of Waaagh!: Please specify whether terrain may be ignored or not during this movement. It gets asked again and again for each of the various movement spells.

'Ere we go!: I'd consider making it "all friendly goblins and snotlings." Having cave squigs and the troll benefit from this skill might be kind of weird.

Questions:
"'Er iz how we won dat one..."
You have written that you add +1 to the roll for each member of your warband killed. Do you mean taken out of action, or actually killed from a serious injuries role?

Netter:
"Using the normal rules" is referring to the rules for net throwing in the mordheim rulebook? This is very ambiguous. If that's so, I'm guessing that you roll to hit using BS with no modifiers. You can also use the net when charging or being charged? Can you only throw one net per battle as per the mordheim rules? I'm guessing you have to purchase these nets per the mordheim rules? If this is how it's intended to work, it seems rather overpowered. In your boss's first game, with a net, he has a 3+ chance to knock down anyone he charges or is charged by before combat begins! 6 goblin heroes with two handed weapons and this skill would often decimate a line of ogres/possessed/vampires.

Sneaky Git:
When you say "can move D3 of his warband members after all other deployment," Does that mean you can relocate them in the deployment zone, or they can each actually make a move action?

Misc:
Finally, you seem to have a misprint where clubs cost 5 gold for henchmen. Also, are spears supposed to cost 5 gold? I think that's a more balanced cost for them, but in all other warbands, they are 10. Under "Choice of Warriors" Bosses are mistakenly labeled Champions.

I'm sorry if this review of your warband seems very-critical. On the contrary, I genuinely love what I've seen of this warband, and hope to see it prosper. One of my friends has long wanted to play a night goblin warband but has been frustrated with the ones which have been floating around. They fail to be competitive, and are usually rather boring flavor-wise. Thus far this warband seems to have largely overcome those problems.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 8 Apr 2009 - 16:20

I updated the file (see 4 post above), correcting some errors Identity found and altering skills. Still looking for criticism and suggestions.

Thanks for the review identity, like all first drafts there are bound to be mistakes!

I will address what i can. While this is supposed to be a shooty warband, I don't want it overflowing with Shadow Warrior style cheese! Especially considering I am going to play them against, Lizardmen, Dwarves, Orc & Goblin, and Carnival warbands in about a month.

Ded Shooty, how is it more over powered than doubling your shots with Quick Shot? All it does is save you the extra turn of moving into a building. Combined with Sniper and Hide in Shadows and i can see some opponents pulling their hair out, but they are supposed to be sneaky! Plus i have no access to strength skills so i miss out on some popular skill combos.

I may remove sniper if i can replace it with something more suitable. I did replace Sneaky Git with Mushroom Cultivator because it was confusing and just didn't feel right.

If some people limit the number of models with Infiltrate that's great, but I'm not going to change a warband list to reflect house rules, Skaven have not been changed.

Fanatics cost the same upkeep as they do in Da Mob Rulz, but with Mushroom Cultivator you can offset the price a little. I changes his base cost to 15 and removed his stupidity (which he'll soon get anyway).

Snotlings are straight from the original NG list (small change to how they are baught) and Magic is copy paste from Forest Gobbos. Clarification has been added though.

Er iz how we won dat one: I meant killed but it has been removed for now.

The netter will need to roll to hit at -1 for moving and the target must fail a strength check. If either condition is not met it is a failed charge. Nets are as always a one use item. The chances are not as good as you think, but how else could this skill work? Open to suggestions.

I dislike having 4 identical heroes as well. I can't think of anything to add though that fits with Night Goblins unless...

I could make Bosses 0-2, and have either dedicated Netters (removing the skill) or dedicated Clubbers (can gain strength skill but no lads got talent goblins may choose them), or both. Or I could have a veteran Squig Herder, but he would need an advantage over just a Goblin with a prodder.

Typos fixed, but i think i will house rule spears to cost 8gc, but house rules are not represented in the list.

I need to credit the pictures i used as well...

And as far as Riding Squigs, I was just going to count them as Wolves Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 8 Apr 2009 - 22:41

I'm not suggesting that Ded Shooty is better than quick shot, I'm suggesting that in combination with quick shot and a crossbow, it's quite ridiculous. That extra turn moving into a building is now spent shooting the target of your choice twice. It also greatly increases the utility of the shooters if they can stay on the ground level, able to help where needed instead of being stuck in a building where it'd take 3 turns for them to get someplace helpful. Add on top of that the ability to take sniper, and I imagine these night gobbos would make unparalleled shooters.

Also, here's the official updated version of sniper straight from the 2002 Annual. If you keep sniper, at least use this version:
"If Hidden, a warrior with this skill may shoot or cast spells and still remain Hidden. If his target is not immediately taken out of action by the Sniper they get to test against their Initiative in an attempt to spot him. A successful test mean that the Sniper has been spotted and is no longer hidden."

Ok, that's a bit more clear on the netting. Yeah, with the strength test, it's probably a little underpowered. Also, there's no penalty for moving and throwing a net. I'm guessing you can throw a net when you're getting charged?
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 9 Apr 2009 - 3:54

Oh yeah, throwing weapon don't suffer from move and shoot. Underpowered was my impression as well, but that's better than over powered any day, especially when the author plans to be the player!

As written you can't throw a net if you are charged.

I already changed the Sniper to the updated version, thanks for the heads up, it was just something i was not aware of.

Ded Shooty is an interesting skill, one that has not been done and can find a place in Mordheim, but i'm not sure I can justify only Night Goblins getting the skill. It may get the axe, or left in favor of Sniper getting cut... Agree that both in combination with a crossbow (which requires yet another skill to wild mind you) are very appealing.

Also i should make a rule that states that Night Gobbos are never at a disadvantage in dark or pitch black environments as far as shooting is concerned.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 14 Apr 2009 - 2:29

OLD VERSION! Version 0.3: Download Link

Changes:
I have now started putting the version number on the first page, this being version 0.3.

Removed the reference to nets getting -1 while moving since throwing weapons never suffer this penalty, I had a brain fart while typing the last version!

Ded Shooty is now gone, being replaced with Backstabber as Von Kurst suggested. Upon reading it i realize it is very powerful...

Removed Mushroom Cultivator for now and replaced it with reduced price Mad Cap Mushrooms at 15gc. (The alternative was to make the skill a special rule for the warband, so multiple heroes can't get it and make you rich by selling shrooms)

Clarified how "er we go" only works on Goblin Models.

Gave the troll the same treatment as the Nemesis Crown version in the Black Orc list.

I increased the price of the Shaman to 25 points because he has access to special skills, which the Forest Goblin version did not.

Changed the penalty for failing to entangle someone with the Netter skill from a failed charge to loss of first strike.

Clarified how Magic Gubbins work once per turn. As they stand they are a crappy version of a Familiar but without the risk of wasting money and not creating one.

I was going to make a rule for their night vision but upon researching i found no reference to any penalties for darkness in any supplement so it was unnecessary.

I would like to either replace one of the Bosses with a squig hopper, or make a ride squig skill. Will work on this for the next version.

As always, comments and criticism are encouraged!!!


Last edited by Pathfinder Dubstyles on Wed 1 Jul 2009 - 1:42; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 14 Apr 2009 - 13:42

Khemri and Relics have penalties for night fighting. In Relics its harder to hit in H-t-H combat and there are vision range penalties. I think Night Goblins are already given night sight in the Khemri rules.

Looks good!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 14 Apr 2009 - 16:25

Yes, Von Kurst is correct again, Night Goblins live in caves and have better night vision than most (except Skaven who also would have great night vision).
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 14 Apr 2009 - 21:08

Khemri and Relics eh? I have not read them in depth and don't plan on playing in those settings, but for those who do I'll leave that up to the players to solve. Since Skaven have no similar rule, it should be covered as each player group feels fit and not forced upon by the rules. I am all about unobtrusive ruling... I think!

Any input on the reduced cost Mushrooms instead of a farming skill? I don't want to create a source of free income a-la Necromunda Inventor, but i do want to make fanatics more feasible.

I could keep the Mad Caps at 15, like they are or make them the regular price, but count the Fanatics always under their effects and already stupid. That way their supply is assumed to come out of upkeep costs instead of constantly buying madcaps (makes sense fluff-wise) and whatever the warband grows itself, without making fanatics extra expensive to field.
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