Quickshot and bow/crossbow subtypes

Just to check, when Quick shot says it may be used with a Bow, this means it can only be used with a basic 24" range Bow, and not a shortbow, elf bow or long bow?

And by the same logic Crossbow does not include Repeater Crossbows?

Maybe too liberal on my part, but since the skill explicitly states its exceptions (crossbow pistols and nothing else), and since the old rulebook allowed this skill to be used with an even wider spectrum of missile weapons (which had its own problems, so I understand the new wording as a clarification and rephrasing of the old skill, not a restrictive new one), I think every kind of bow (so short, long and Elf bows, indeed) or crossbow (except crossbow pistols) can be fired twice with it.

/Edit: For repeater crossbows, why not? Go ahead, fire twice with the skill (or without it ) - no one ever said you could fire four times.

I agree with Mephysto on this one.

That's how we play it too. Any type of bow or crossbow except for those specifically stated.

I agree, too. Would be pretty silly if you could only use it with a standard bow.

We discuss this pretty often I think, although if you try a search very little comes up, Either way the consensus is that ALL types of bows and ALL types of crossbows are covered.

As already noted repeater crossbows do not become 4 shot weapons, instead the skill allows the warrior to lose the -1 to hit for firing twice.

What I've never understood is the desire to group crossbow pistols with every other type of pistol. The rules are totally different! If you want to fire twice with a crossbow pistol, you've got to buy a second one (a "brace") and take Pistolier. It always struck me as a more elegant solution to place crossbow pistols under the purview of Quick Shot.

Is that somehow too powerful? Anybody have any insight on the subject?

In my group we modified Quick-shot to be you get +1 shot, so for repeater crossbows (and slings at the time) you would get 2 shots at normal and 3 shots at -1 to hit.

I think perhaps what they really didn't want was crossbow pistols being used with Quickshot *and* Pistoleer. So because they could only choose one skill that it would be used with they went with Pistoleer because the mental image of a person dual-wielding crossbow pistols was way cooler than a person just shooting twice with one of them.

My close-support Big'Un likes the new rules - he can fire a brace of dueling pistols and then fire a brace of crossbow pistols while waiting for them to cool down to reload them. My Marienburger captain is less fond of the rules. He used to be able to have a Hockland Long Rifle and a dueling pistol and use Hunter to quickly reload both of them. Now he has to wait for the pistol because Hunter only works with handguns and long rifles and I don't give him Pistoleer.

Ha! I suppose dual crossbow pistols is a much cooler image.

TWANG!

"What the hell was that? Are there bees in Mordheim?"

TWANG!

"Argh!"

Still, that extra 35 gold to get a second shot is annoying. Especially when there's no close combat advantage like you would get with a second pistol. However, if you're going to combine crossbow pistols with other pistols on a single model...

@Lord0: Your explanation FINALLY gave me some insight into the crossbow pistol's inclusion on the Pistolier skill. If you've got a "close-support" character like your Big 'Un, it makes sense. The function of a crossbow pistol and a regular pistol in-game are similar, even if the rules are dissimilar. In other words, they're both close range weapons, so they OUGHT to only require one skill slot to use effectively.

Still, it bothers me that the only reason a "brace" of crossbow pistols exists is to shoehorn them into the Pistolier skill. They don't require a reload, so buying that extra one still feels like a waste of gold.

You could always house rule it in your group to come under the Quickshot rule instead or make it so that the person using them can choose which one they want it to come under. That way a person with Pistoleer doesn't have to get Quickshot and a person with Quickshot doesn't have to get Pistoleer. Just so long as you don't make it so that it it can have *both* apply to it.

We don't have anyone playing Witch-hunters in my group so noone takes them very much. I think I will put it to them to see if we will allow it to benefit from either (not both, of course ).

Lord 0 wrote:

I think I will put it to them to see if we will allow it to benefit from either (not both, of course ).

I may do the same. A very reasonable solution, IMO. And I'm definitely in agreement that both skills should not apply simultaneously. No silly "but I should get 4 shots" arguments here!