Giant Rats and Gladiators

Hi all, noob here

I would have a couple of questions, if you don't mind...

1) the Skaven Giant Rats "Pack Size" ability says that I can recruit as many as I wish. this means that I can go over the band limit of 20 warriors?

2) there's any drawback (rule-wise, for balance, playability, etc.) in using the "old" version of Pit-Fighters warband rules? (the ones with free weapons choice).

thanks in advance

Hi Noob - welcome aboard - in answer to your questions:

1. Being a Skaven player I have always played it that they cannot exceed the 20 warrior limit!

2. Personally I have played against the 'old' version pitfighters and am currently building one - they are a good warband, make sure though that you do include some missiles (Javelins) otherwise you will get shot to pieces. As far as I am concerned (and I stand to be corrected) the second list is only a GW ploy to suit their specific figures ... I would imagine that in Mordheim the pitfighters would not be wandering round in organised stables of one or two of specific types!

Since the fluff behind my Pit fighters is that they are escaped slaves who fought their way out with the weapons they had I prefer having them use the styles. I had heard from others (maybe on these forums?) that the older pit fighters band was considered to be a bit on the powerful side. And the weapon packages is an annoyance, but not crippling. The hard to deal with part is starting with 4 heroes and almost no ranged weapons and only T3 on most. My wife's wood elves shoot me to pieces. I really need to learn to hide...

Thanks for replies. A bit more talk about giant rats, if you don't mind...

If they count against the 20 warrior limits, why bothering to hire them? I mean, for 5 points difference I can take a Verminkin, losing 1M but gaining 1WS, 1Ld, the abilities to climb and most important, gaining experience. for 2 more points he will be able to shoot, too.
If I'll end up playing Skaven (I'm currently deciding between rats or Possessed) I'll take one anyway, to add some "colour" to the band, but I don't see reasons to get more. but probably I'm missing something.... ^^

But the thing that puzzle me most is why to add a rule like "Pack size", if they're still constrained to the 20-man size limit, in what they're different from Verminkinds to need a rule specifying I can take as many of them as I want...?

For Prit-Fighters, I was asking (suspecting the new rules were made to sell the minis) as I don't like very much the official ones (I own thee of them, anyway) and I was planning to get some of the Reaper's gladiators.

Another question: with the "Weapon Training" ability a Night Runner can be upgraded to use the Skaven Hero equipment list? I suppose it works just for close combat weapons though, no throwing stars or pistols for them, right...?

again, thanks in advance for replies

Regarding the number of giant rats - a swarm of rats has a great effect on morale of your opposition - it is the number that count! - however having just read the rule again, you may be right - it does imply that an unlimited number are available - I look forward to other responses ...

In regard to the 'Weapon Ability' the rules do specify 'hand-to-hand' weapons i.e. close combat, not missiles.

Giant rats do count towards the warband limit.

The "Pack Size" special rule just means that you can hire more than 5 giant rats at a time and put more than 5 giant rats in to the same henchman group.

Quote :

All Henchmen belong to a Henchmen group, which usually consists of between one and five individuals. Henchmen groups gain experience collectively and gain advances together.

The "Pack Size" rule allows for an exception to the maximum henchmen group size of 5.

ok, all clear. thank you!

another question:
I would like to use this figure as Pit King:
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/gladiator/latest/03104#detail/IG_618_1

there's no way to give him the ability to use javelins?
I could ignore them, or treat as a spear, but javelins would bemore useful and wysiwyg

You could promote a Pursuer to hero status and use that? Also for Pit Fighters I play that weapons Master/Expert allows the model to use other combinations of gear and no longer be restricted by style.

Another ruling I have heard use by some friends of mine is that the packages are only for NEW models. Afterwards they can be equipped and use any combination of gear that is on their list somewhere. (So a Pit King could use an Axe and a Sword or a pit fighter could use light armor and an axe and a shield.

thanks again to all for help and suggestions